On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 03:02:13PM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote: > On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 2:23 PM Leon Romanovsky <leon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 11:26:38AM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 10:02 PM Laurent Pinchart > > > <laurent.pinchart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > <...> > > > > > > > > It would be great to define what are the free software communities > > > here. Distros and final users are also "free software communities" and > > > they do not care about niche use cases covered by proprietary > > > software. > > > > Are you certain about that? > > As a user, and as an open source Distro developer I have a small hint. > But you could also ask users what they think about not being able to > use their notebook's cameras. The last time that I could not use some > basic hardware from a notebook with Linux was 20 years ago. Lucky you, I still have consumer hardware (speaker) that doesn't work with Linux, and even now, there is basic hardware in my current laptop (HP docking station) that doesn't work reliably in Linux. > > > > > > They only care (and should care) about normal workflows. > > > > What is a normal workflow? > > Does it mean that if user bought something very expensive he > > should not be able to use it with free software, because his > > usage is different from yours? > > > > Thanks > > It means that we should not block the standard usage for 99% of the > population just because 1% of the users cannot do something fancy with > their device. Right, the problem is that in some areas the statistics slightly different. 99% population is blocked because 1% of the users don't need it and don't think that it is "normal" flow. > > Let me give you an example. When I buy a camera I want to be able to > do Video Conferencing and take some static photos of documents. I do > not care about: automatic makeup, AI generated background, unicorn > filters, eyes recentering... But we need to give a way to vendors to > implement those things closely, without the marketing differentiators, > vendors have zero incentive to invest in Linux, and that affects all > the population. > > This challenge seems to be solved for GPUs. I am using my AMD GPU > freely and my nephew can install the amdgpu-pro proprietary user space > driver to play duke nukem (or whatever kids play now) at 2000 fps. > > There are other other subsystems that allow vendor passthrough and > their ecosystem has not collapsed. Yes, I completely agree with you on that. > > Can we have some general guidance of what is acceptable? Can we define > together the "normal workflow" and focus on a *full* open source > implementation of that? I don't think that is possible to define "normal workflow". Requirement to have open-source counterpart to everything exposed through UAPI is a valid one. I'm all for that. Thanks > > -- > Ricardo Ribalda
