On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 09:42:43AM +0100, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 08:31:40AM +0100, Lukas Wunner wrote: > > @Greg KH: > > Would you entertain a patch adding a bit to struct device which indicates > > the device was surprise removed? The PCIe Hotplug and PCIe Downstream > > Port Containment drivers are both able to recognize surprise removal and > > can set the bit. > > > > When removing the device we currently perform numerous accesses to config > > space in the PCI core. Additionally the driver for the removed device > > (e.g. network driver, GPU driver) performs mmio accesses to orderly shut > > down the device. E.g. when unplugging the Apple Thunderbolt Ethernet > > adapter the kernel currently locks up as the tg3 driver tries to shutdown > > the removed device. If we had a bit to indicate surprise removal we could > > handle this properly in the PCI core and device driver ->remove hooks. > > > > For comparison, this is what macOS recommends to driver developers: > > > > "PCI device drivers are typically developed with the expectation > > that the device will not be removed from the PCI bus during its > > operation. However, Thunderbolt technology allows PCI data to be > > tunneled through a Thunderbolt connection, and the Thunderbolt > > cables may be unplugged from the host or device at any time. > > Therefore, the system must be able to cope with the removal of > > PCI devices by the user at any time. > > > > The PCI device drivers used with Thunderbolt devices may need to > > be updated in order to handle surprise or unplanned removal. > > In particular, MMIO cycles and PCI Configuration accesses require > > special attention. [...] As a basic guideline, developers should > > modify their drivers to handle a return value of 0xFFFFFFFF. > > If any thread, callback, interrupt filter, or code path in a > > driver receives 0xFFFFFFFF indicating the device has been > > unplugged, then all threads, callbacks, interrupt filters, > > interrupt handlers, and other code paths in that driver must > > cease MMIO reads and writes immediately and prepare for > > termination. [...] > > > > Once it has been determined that a device is no longer connected, > > do not try to clean up or reset the hardware as attempts to > > communicate with the hardware may lead to further delays. [...] > > A typical way for a developer to solve this problem is to provide > > a single bottleneck routine for all MMIO reads and have that > > routine check the status of the device before beginning the actual > > transaction." > > > > Source: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/ThunderboltDevGuide/Basics02/Basics02.html > > > > We lack a comparable functionality and the question is whether to > > support it only in the PCI core or in a more general fashion in the > > driver core. Other buses (such as USB) have to support surprise > > removal as well. > > PCI devices have _ALWAYS_ had to handle supprise removal, and the MacOS > guidelines are the exact same thing that we have been telling Linux > kernel developers for years. > > So no, a supprise removal flag should not be needed, your driver should > already be handling this problem today (if it isn't, it needs to be > fixed.) > > Don't try to rely on some out-of-band notification that your device is > removed, just do what you write above and handle it that way in your > driver. There are lots of examples of this in the kernel today, are you > concerned about any specific driver that does not do this properly? The generic pci bus driver is what we're concerned about. This is not intended to target a device specific driver. Handling a removal has the generic pci driver generate many hundreds of config and MMIO access to the device we know is removed, so we know those will fail. The flag is only so the pci bus driver knows that it doesn't need to send requests since we should already know the outcome. The concern is that hardware from many vendors handle these as slower error cases, and we are very closely approaching the completion timeouts defined in the 10s of millisecond range. We occasionally observe exceeding the timeout, creating MCE, but that's not really our justification for the patches. When the pci bus driver issues hundreds of such requests, it significantly slows down device tear down time. We want to handle removal of switches with potentially many devices below it, and pci bus scanning being serialized, the proposed change gets such scenarios to complete removal in microseconds where we currently take many seconds. We are currently so slow that a user can easily swap a device such that the linux pci driver is still trying to unbind from the old device with unnecessary config access to potentially undefined results when those requests reach the new device that linux doesn't know about yet. > And really, all busses need to handle their device being removed at any > point in time anyway, so the reliance on a "supprise" flag would not > help much, as usually that is only known _after_ the fact and the device > would have already started to report other types of errors. > > So what "benifit" would a supprise removal flag provide? Other than > some PCI busses could set this, and many others could not, so a driver > would have to be changed to now support both types of detection, > _adding_ work to drivers, not making it easier by any means :( The flag is not intended for a device specific driver to use. The intention is for the pci bus driver to use it, so no additional work for other drivers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
