On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 10:00 AM Usama Arif <usamaarif642@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On 30/10/2024 20:48, Barry Song wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 9:41 AM Usama Arif <usamaarif642@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 30/10/2024 20:27, Barry Song wrote: > >>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 3:51 AM Usama Arif <usamaarif642@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 28/10/2024 22:03, Barry Song wrote: > >>>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2024 at 8:07 PM Usama Arif <usamaarif642@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 27/10/2024 01:14, Barry Song wrote: > >>>>>>> From: Barry Song <v-songbaohua@xxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In a memcg where mTHP is always utilized, even at full capacity, it > >>>>>>> might not be the best option. Consider a system that uses only small > >>>>>>> folios: after each reclamation, a process has at least SWAP_CLUSTER_MAX > >>>>>>> of buffer space before it can initiate the next reclamation. However, > >>>>>>> large folios can quickly fill this space, rapidly bringing the memcg > >>>>>>> back to full capacity, even though some portions of the large folios > >>>>>>> may not be immediately needed and used by the process. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Usama and Kanchana identified a regression when building the kernel in > >>>>>>> a memcg with memory.max set to a small value while enabling large > >>>>>>> folio swap-in support on zswap[1]. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The issue arises from an edge case where the memory cgroup remains > >>>>>>> nearly full most of the time. Consequently, bringing in mTHP can > >>>>>>> quickly cause a memcg overflow, triggering a swap-out. The subsequent > >>>>>>> swap-in then recreates the overflow, resulting in a repetitive cycle. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We need a mechanism to stop the cup from overflowing continuously. > >>>>>>> One potential solution is to slow the filling process when we identify > >>>>>>> that the cup is nearly full. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Usama reported an improvement when we mitigate mTHP swap-in as the > >>>>>>> memcg approaches full capacity[2]: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> int mem_cgroup_swapin_charge_folio(...) > >>>>>>> { > >>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>> if (folio_test_large(folio) && > >>>>>>> mem_cgroup_margin(memcg) < max(MEMCG_CHARGE_BATCH, folio_nr_pages(folio))) > >>>>>>> ret = -ENOMEM; > >>>>>>> else > >>>>>>> ret = charge_memcg(folio, memcg, gfp); > >>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>> } > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> AMD 16K+32K THP=always > >>>>>>> metric mm-unstable mm-unstable + large folio zswapin series mm-unstable + large folio zswapin + no swap thrashing fix > >>>>>>> real 1m23.038s 1m23.050s 1m22.704s > >>>>>>> user 53m57.210s 53m53.437s 53m52.577s > >>>>>>> sys 7m24.592s 7m48.843s 7m22.519s > >>>>>>> zswpin 612070 999244 815934 > >>>>>>> zswpout 2226403 2347979 2054980 > >>>>>>> pgfault 20667366 20481728 20478690 > >>>>>>> pgmajfault 385887 269117 309702 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> AMD 16K+32K+64K THP=always > >>>>>>> metric mm-unstable mm-unstable + large folio zswapin series mm-unstable + large folio zswapin + no swap thrashing fix > >>>>>>> real 1m22.975s 1m23.266s 1m22.549s > >>>>>>> user 53m51.302s 53m51.069s 53m46.471s > >>>>>>> sys 7m40.168s 7m57.104s 7m25.012s > >>>>>>> zswpin 676492 1258573 1225703 > >>>>>>> zswpout 2449839 2714767 2899178 > >>>>>>> pgfault 17540746 17296555 17234663 > >>>>>>> pgmajfault 429629 307495 287859 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I wonder if we can extend the mitigation to do_anonymous_page() as > >>>>>>> well. Without hardware like AMD and ARM with hardware TLB coalescing > >>>>>>> or CONT-PTE, I conducted a quick test on my Intel i9 workstation with > >>>>>>> 10 cores and 2 threads. I enabled one 12 GiB zRAM while running kernel > >>>>>>> builds in a memcg with memory.max set to 1 GiB. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> $ echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-64kB/enabled > >>>>>>> $ echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-32kB/enabled > >>>>>>> $ echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-16kB/enabled > >>>>>>> $ echo never > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-2048kB/enabled > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> $ time systemd-run --scope -p MemoryMax=1G make ARCH=arm64 \ > >>>>>>> CROSS_COMPILE=aarch64-linux-gnu- Image -10 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> disable-mTHP-swapin mm-unstable with-this-patch > >>>>>>> Real: 6m54.595s 7m4.832s 6m45.811s > >>>>>>> User: 66m42.795s 66m59.984s 67m21.150s > >>>>>>> Sys: 12m7.092s 15m18.153s 12m52.644s > >>>>>>> pswpin: 4262327 11723248 5918690 > >>>>>>> pswpout: 14883774 19574347 14026942 > >>>>>>> 64k-swpout: 624447 889384 480039 > >>>>>>> 32k-swpout: 115473 242288 73874 > >>>>>>> 16k-swpout: 158203 294672 109142 > >>>>>>> 64k-swpin: 0 495869 159061 > >>>>>>> 32k-swpin: 0 219977 56158 > >>>>>>> 16k-swpin: 0 223501 81445 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Usama, > >>>>> > >>>>>> hmm, both the user and sys time are worse with the patch compared to > >>>>>> disable-mTHP-swapin. I wonder if the real time is an anomaly and if you > >>>>>> repeat the experiment the real time might be worse as well? > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, I've improved my script to include a loop: > >>>>> > >>>>> echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-64kB/enabled > >>>>> echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-32kB/enabled > >>>>> echo always > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-16kB/enabled > >>>>> echo never > /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-2048kB/enabled > >>>>> > >>>>> for ((i=1; i<=100; i++)) > >>>>> do > >>>>> echo "Executing round $i" > >>>>> make ARCH=arm64 CROSS_COMPILE=aarch64-linux-gnu- clean 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null > >>>>> echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches > >>>>> time systemd-run --scope -p MemoryMax=1G make ARCH=arm64 \ > >>>>> CROSS_COMPILE=aarch64-linux-gnu- vmlinux -j15 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null > >>>>> cat /proc/vmstat | grep pswp > >>>>> echo -n 64k-swpout: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-64kB/stats/swpout > >>>>> echo -n 32k-swpout: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-32kB/stats/swpout > >>>>> echo -n 16k-swpout: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-16kB/stats/swpout > >>>>> echo -n 64k-swpin: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-64kB/stats/swpin > >>>>> echo -n 32k-swpin: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-32kB/stats/swpin > >>>>> echo -n 16k-swpin: ; cat > >>>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/hugepages-16kB/stats/swpin > >>>>> done > >>>>> > >>>>> I've noticed that the user/sys/real time on my i9 machine fluctuates > >>>>> constantly, could be things > >>>>> like: > >>>>> real 6m52.087s > >>>>> user 67m12.463s > >>>>> sys 13m8.281s > >>>>> ... > >>>>> > >>>>> real 7m42.937s > >>>>> user 66m55.250s > >>>>> sys 12m56.330s > >>>>> ... > >>>>> > >>>>> real 6m49.374s > >>>>> user 66m37.040s > >>>>> sys 12m44.542s > >>>>> ... > >>>>> > >>>>> real 6m54.205s > >>>>> user 65m49.732s > >>>>> sys 11m33.078s > >>>>> ... > >>>>> > >>>>> likely due to unstable temperatures and I/O latency. As a result, my > >>>>> data doesn’t seem > >>>>> reference-worthy. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> So I had suggested retrying the experiment to see how reproducible it is, > >>>> but had not done that myself! > >>>> Thanks for sharing this. I tried many times on the AMD server and I see > >>>> varying numbers as well. > >>>> > >>>> AMD 16K THP always, cgroup = 4G, large folio zswapin patches > >>>> real 1m28.351s > >>>> user 54m14.476s > >>>> sys 8m46.596s > >>>> zswpin 811693 > >>>> zswpout 2137310 > >>>> pgfault 27344671 > >>>> pgmajfault 290510 > >>>> .. > >>>> real 1m24.557s > >>>> user 53m56.815s > >>>> sys 8m10.200s > >>>> zswpin 571532 > >>>> zswpout 1645063 > >>>> pgfault 26989075 > >>>> pgmajfault 205177 > >>>> .. > >>>> real 1m26.083s > >>>> user 54m5.303s > >>>> sys 9m55.247s > >>>> zswpin 1176292 > >>>> zswpout 2910825 > >>>> pgfault 27286835 > >>>> pgmajfault 419746 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The sys time can especially vary by large numbers. I think you see the same. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> As a phone engineer, we never use phones to run kernel builds. I'm also > >>>>> quite certain that phones won't provide stable and reliable data for this > >>>>> type of workload. Without access to a Linux server to conduct the test, > >>>>> I really need your help. > >>>>> > >>>>> I used to work on optimizing the ARM server scheduler and memory > >>>>> management, and I really miss that machine I had until three years ago :-) > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I need Usama's assistance to identify a suitable patch, as I lack > >>>>>>> access to hardware such as AMD machines and ARM servers with TLB > >>>>>>> optimization. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/b1c17b5e-acd9-4bef-820e-699768f1426d@xxxxxxxxx/ > >>>>>>> [2] https://lore.kernel.org/all/7a14c332-3001-4b9a-ada3-f4d6799be555@xxxxxxxxx/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cc: Kanchana P Sridhar <kanchana.p.sridhar@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Usama Arif <usamaarif642@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: David Hildenbrand <david@xxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Baolin Wang <baolin.wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Chris Li <chrisl@xxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Yosry Ahmed <yosryahmed@xxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Kairui Song <kasong@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@xxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Johannes Weiner <hannes@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Michal Hocko <mhocko@xxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Roman Gushchin <roman.gushchin@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Shakeel Butt <shakeel.butt@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Cc: Muchun Song <muchun.song@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Barry Song <v-songbaohua@xxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> include/linux/memcontrol.h | 9 ++++++++ > >>>>>>> mm/memcontrol.c | 45 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>>>>> mm/memory.c | 17 ++++++++++++++ > >>>>>>> 3 files changed, 71 insertions(+) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> diff --git a/include/linux/memcontrol.h b/include/linux/memcontrol.h > >>>>>>> index 524006313b0d..8bcc8f4af39f 100644 > >>>>>>> --- a/include/linux/memcontrol.h > >>>>>>> +++ b/include/linux/memcontrol.h > >>>>>>> @@ -697,6 +697,9 @@ static inline int mem_cgroup_charge(struct folio *folio, struct mm_struct *mm, > >>>>>>> int mem_cgroup_hugetlb_try_charge(struct mem_cgroup *memcg, gfp_t gfp, > >>>>>>> long nr_pages); > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +int mem_cgroup_precharge_large_folio(struct mm_struct *mm, > >>>>>>> + swp_entry_t *entry); > >>>>>>> + > >>>>>>> int mem_cgroup_swapin_charge_folio(struct folio *folio, struct mm_struct *mm, > >>>>>>> gfp_t gfp, swp_entry_t entry); > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> @@ -1201,6 +1204,12 @@ static inline int mem_cgroup_hugetlb_try_charge(struct mem_cgroup *memcg, > >>>>>>> return 0; > >>>>>>> } > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +static inline int mem_cgroup_precharge_large_folio(struct mm_struct *mm, > >>>>>>> + swp_entry_t *entry) > >>>>>>> +{ > >>>>>>> + return 0; > >>>>>>> +} > >>>>>>> + > >>>>>>> static inline int mem_cgroup_swapin_charge_folio(struct folio *folio, > >>>>>>> struct mm_struct *mm, gfp_t gfp, swp_entry_t entry) > >>>>>>> { > >>>>>>> diff --git a/mm/memcontrol.c b/mm/memcontrol.c > >>>>>>> index 17af08367c68..f3d92b93ea6d 100644 > >>>>>>> --- a/mm/memcontrol.c > >>>>>>> +++ b/mm/memcontrol.c > >>>>>>> @@ -4530,6 +4530,51 @@ int mem_cgroup_hugetlb_try_charge(struct mem_cgroup *memcg, gfp_t gfp, > >>>>>>> return 0; > >>>>>>> } > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +static inline bool mem_cgroup_has_margin(struct mem_cgroup *memcg) > >>>>>>> +{ > >>>>>>> + for (; !mem_cgroup_is_root(memcg); memcg = parent_mem_cgroup(memcg)) { > >>>>>>> + if (mem_cgroup_margin(memcg) < HPAGE_PMD_NR) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There might be 3 issues with the approach: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Its a very big margin, lets say you have ARM64_64K_PAGES, and you have > >>>>>> 256K THP set to always. As HPAGE_PMD is 512M for 64K page, you are > >>>>>> basically saying you need 512M free memory to swapin just 256K? > >>>>> > >>>>> Right, sorry for the noisy code. I was just thinking about 4KB pages > >>>>> and wondering > >>>>> if we could simplify the code. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Its an uneven margin for different folio sizes. > >>>>>> For 16K folio swapin, you are checking if there is margin for 128 folios, > >>>>>> but for 1M folio swapin, you are checking there is margin for just 2 folios. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Maybe it might be better to make this dependent on some factor of folio_nr_pages? > >>>>> > >>>>> Agreed. This is similar to what we discussed regarding your zswap mTHP > >>>>> swap-in series: > >>>>> > >>>>> int mem_cgroup_swapin_charge_folio(...) > >>>>> { > >>>>> ... > >>>>> if (folio_test_large(folio) && > >>>>> mem_cgroup_margin(memcg) < max(MEMCG_CHARGE_BATCH, > >>>>> folio_nr_pages(folio))) > >>>>> ret = -ENOMEM; > >>>>> else > >>>>> ret = charge_memcg(folio, memcg, gfp); > >>>>> ... > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> As someone focused on phones, my challenge is the absence of stable platforms to > >>>>> benchmark this type of workload. If possible, Usama, I would greatly > >>>>> appreciate it if > >>>>> you could take the lead on the patch. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As Johannes pointed out, the charging code already does the margin check. > >>>>>> So for 4K, the check just checks if there is 4K available, but for 16K it checks > >>>>>> if a lot more than 16K is available. Maybe there should be a similar policy for > >>>>>> all? I guess this is similar to my 2nd point, but just considers 4K folios as > >>>>>> well. > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think the charging code performs a margin check. It simply > >>>>> tries to charge > >>>>> the specified nr_pages (whether 1 or more). If nr_pages are available, > >>>>> the charge > >>>>> proceeds; otherwise, if GFP allows blocking, it triggers memory reclamation to > >>>>> reclaim max(SWAP_CLUSTER_MAX, nr_pages) base pages. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> So if you have defrag not set to always, it will not trigger reclamation. > >>>> I think that is a bigger usecase, i.e. defrag=madvise,defer,etc is probably > >>>> used much more then always. > >>>> > >>>> In the current code in that case try_charge_memcg will return -ENOMEM all > >>>> the way to mem_cgroup_swapin_charge_folio and alloc_swap_folio will then > >>>> try the next order. So eventhough it might not be calling the mem_cgroup_margin > >>>> function, it is kind of is doing the same? > >>>> > >>>>> If, after reclamation, we have exactly SWAP_CLUSTER_MAX pages available, a > >>>>> large folio with nr_pages == SWAP_CLUSTER_MAX will successfully charge, > >>>>> immediately filling the memcg. > >>>>> > >>>>> Shortly after, smaller folios—typically with blockable GFP—will quickly trigger > >>>>> additional reclamation. While nr_pages - 1 subpages of the large folio may not > >>>>> be immediately needed, they still occupy enough space to fill the memcg to > >>>>> capacity. > >>>>> > >>>>> My second point about the mitigation is as follows: For a system (or > >>>>> memcg) under severe memory pressure, especially one without hardware TLB > >>>>> optimization, is enabling mTHP always the right choice? Since mTHP operates at > >>>>> a larger granularity, some internal fragmentation is unavoidable, regardless > >>>>> of optimization. Could the mitigation code help in automatically tuning > >>>>> this fragmentation? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I agree with the point that enabling mTHP always is not the right thing to do > >>>> on all platforms. I also think it might be the case that enabling mTHP > >>>> might be a good thing for some workloads, but enabling mTHP swapin along with > >>>> it might not. > >>>> > >>>> As you said when you have apps switching between foreground and background > >>>> in android, it probably makes sense to have large folio swapping, as you > >>>> want to bringin all the pages from background app as quickly as possible. > >>>> And also all the TLB optimizations and smaller lru overhead you get after > >>>> you have brought in all the pages. > >>>> Linux kernel build test doesnt really get to benefit from the TLB optimization > >>>> and smaller lru overhead, as probably the pages are very short lived. So I > >>>> think it doesnt show the benefit of large folio swapin properly and > >>>> large folio swapin should probably be disabled for this kind of workload, > >>>> eventhough mTHP should be enabled. > >>> > >>> I'm not entirely sure if this applies to platforms without TLB > >>> optimization, especially > >>> in the absence of swap. In a memory-limited cgroup without swap, would > >>> mTHP still > >>> cause significant thrashing of file-backed folios? When a large swap > >>> file is present, > >>> the inability to swap in mTHP seems to act as a workaround for fragmentation, > >>> allowing fragmented pages of the original mTHP from do_anonymous_page() to > >>> remain in swap. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> I am not sure that the approach we are trying in this patch is the right way: > >>>> - This patch makes it a memcg issue, but you could have memcg disabled and > >>>> then the mitigation being tried here wont apply. > >>>> - Instead of this being a large folio swapin issue, is it more of a readahead > >>>> issue? If we zswap (without the large folio swapin series) and change the window > >>>> to 1 in swap_vma_readahead, we might see an improvement in linux kernel build time > >>>> when cgroup memory is limited as readahead would probably cause swap thrashing as > >>>> well. > >>>> - Instead of looking at cgroup margin, maybe we should try and look at > >>>> the rate of change of workingset_restore_anon? This might be a lot more complicated > >>>> to do, but probably is the right metric to determine swap thrashing. It also means > >>>> that this could be used in both the synchronous swapcache skipping path and > >>>> swapin_readahead path. > >>>> (Thanks Johannes for suggesting this) > >>>> > >>>> With the large folio swapin, I do see the large improvement when considering only > >>>> swapin performance and latency in the same way as you saw in zram. > >>>> Maybe the right short term approach is to have > >>>> /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/swapin > >>>> and have that disabled by default to avoid regression. > >>> > >>> A crucial component is still missing—managing the compression and decompression > >>> of multiple pages as a larger block. This could significantly reduce > >>> system time and > >>> potentially resolve the kernel build issue within a small memory > >>> cgroup, even with > >>> swap thrashing. > >>> > >>> I’ll send an update ASAP so you can rebase for zswap. > >> > >> Did you mean https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241021232852.4061-1-21cnbao@xxxxxxxxx/? > >> Thats wont benefit zswap, right? > > > > That's right. I assume we can also make it work with zswap? > > Hopefully yes. Thats mainly why I was looking at that series, to try and find > a way to do something similar for zswap. > > > >> I actually had a few questions about it. Mainly that the benefit comes if the > >> pagefault happens on page 0 of the large folio. But if the page fault happens > >> on any other page, lets say page 1 of a 64K folio. then it will decompress the > >> entire 64K chunk and just copy page 1? (memcpy in zram_bvec_read_multi_pages_partial). > >> Could that cause a regression as you have to decompress a large chunk for just > >> getting 1 4K page? > >> If we assume uniform distribution of page faults, maybe it could make things worse? > >> > >> I probably should ask all of this in that thread. > > > > With mTHP swap-in, a page fault on any page behaves the same as a fault on > > page 0. Without mTHP swap-in, there’s also no difference between > > faults on page 0 > > and other pages. > > Ah ok, its because of the ALIGN_DOWN in > https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v6.12-rc5/source/mm/memory.c#L4158, > right? right. > > > > A fault on any page means that the entire block is decompressed. The > > only difference > > is that we don’t partially copy one page when mTHP swap-in is present. > > > Ah so zram_bvec_read_multi_pages_partial would be called only > if someone swaps out mTHP, disables it and then tries to do swapin? > For example, if the block contains 16KB of original data but only 4KB is swapped in without mTHP swap-in, this means we decompress the entire 16KB while only copying a portion of it to do_swap_page(). So likely compression/ decompression of large blocks without mTHP swapin can make things worse though it brings higher compression ratio. > Thanks > > >> > >>> > >>>> If the workload owner sees a benefit, they can enable it. > >>>> I can add this when sending the next version of large folio zswapin if that makes > >>>> sense? > >>>> Longer term I can try and have a look at if we can do something with > >>>> workingset_restore_anon to improve things. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Usama > > Thanks Barry