On Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Christoph Pfister wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Tobias Stöber wrote: > >> There is a complete listing including parameters from "in area" and also > >> "out of area" (but with reception in the area) transmitters at > >> http://www.ueberallfernsehen.de/data/senderliste_25_11_2008.pdf > I've quickly built a collection of scan files according to this > document - do you mind having a look at them (although the change that > will happen in Hamburg sometime and possibly other changes that > happened since 25th November aren't considered yet)? Certainly. Just as a background, for the one or zero persons who care, the situation in germany can be vaguely described thus: There exist national public service, regional public service, national/regional private commercial, and local broadcasters. In general, the local and private broadcasters focus their attention on large markets (Berlin, Frankfurt/Main, Hamburg, München, and so on), and are not to be found so much outside these limited regions -- with exceptions, like in Oberbayern from the Wendelstein, but while the public service broadcasters have a remit to reach the general population, the private broadcasters have chosen to focus their financial investment in those markets where they can reach a larger audience share for little investment. That is, the RTL and Pro7Sat1 families can be seen in, say, Hamburg, but far from these metro areas, you are pretty much limited to a subset of the public broadcasters. Of the national and regional public broadcasters, the DVB-T situation can be pretty much described as thusly... There is a truly national broadcaster, the second german broadcaster, ZDF, which has a multiplex known as ZDFmobil which is available nationally, and is identical whether received in Flensburg or Passau (hey, no heckling, that was a beloved train ride for me years ago). The other nominally national broadcaster, ARD, known as the first german broadcaster ("Das Erste"), suffers regionalisation both through a local identity in a particular Bundesland, as well as a regional DVB-T multiplex management that does not always translate well to match those of neighbouring lands. This regionalisation is due to sub-management by a third party, which, perhaps as a super-regional manager, is responsible for more than one Bundesland (for our original case of Hamburg, this would be NDR, together with its daughter Radio Bremen). These `third parties' taken together form that first german broadcaster, as well as having their own distinct regional identities. The practical example of this would be that while one can see the same content via ZDFmobil anywhere, the so-called ARD multiplex may contain, by region, EinsPlus or EinsFestival, or perhaps in that region, that regional manager's so-called ``Dritte'' (third, after ARD being first and ZDF being second) programme. In other words, nationally, one can receive the ZDF multiplex, plus two others, which will depend on how the regional management has decided to configure their multiplexes. Services such as Phoenix and `arte' will be available nationally, while the `dritte' multiplex will contain a selection of out-of-area regionals of interest due to geography or whatever. Now, while ZDF has a unified national service, the same is not necessarily true for what you can receive in a selected Bundesland. For example, in Hessen, depending on where you are, you may be able to receive the local programming from the nearest Bundesland; in the south of Bayern you can see SWR Baden-Württemberg but temporarily not Hessen (or the DVB-H which replaced it), while in the north you will instead see `mdr', although you may have previously received SWR, which is the reason that Bad Mergentheim in BaWü, near the border, will need its own DVB-T transmitter sometime this year. Now, anyway, for the zero readers who care, that's my summary of german public broadcasters approach to DVB-T. I'm happy to be corrected, because I'm an outsider. So, anyway, there's been forces to cause merging of the different regional broadcasters; NDR covers several Bundesländer, with Radio Bremen retaining a bit of independence; SWR has engulfed SWF and pretty-much- identical-save-for-a-few-half-hour-bits-here-and-there programming can be seen on SWR-RP, SWR-BW, and even SR from the Saarland. This can probably be seen by looking at the different frequency plans, although I am too lazy and disinterested to do so now. Anyway, the Genève frequency allocations look to be based on geographical locations, independent of the regional broadcast administrator responsible. What am I saying by all this tripe? Well, there is a regional frequency allocation that is presently used by the public service broadcasters, but so far has seen spotty adoption by the local and commercial broadcasters apart from a handful of larger metro regions, leaving most of the land by area dependent upon satellite reception for these programmes. Anyway, now that I have digressed in an attempt to show that I can claim to know what I'm talking about even after a few beers, here's my feedback: The following seems wrong, because of the problem I noted in the message to which you replied: # DVB-T Hamburg # Created from http://ueberallfernsehen.de/data/dvb-t_deutschland_stand_25.11.08.pdf # T freq bw fec_hi fec_lo mod transmission-mode guard-interval hierarchy T 205500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 490000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 490000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 530000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 570000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 570000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 626000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 626000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 674000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE T 674000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONE T 754000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE You should notice the duplicated frequencies but with differing guard interval values. I suspect that 1/8 is correct for a few more weeks at the single VHF frequency, but I believe that 1/4 is the correct value for all duplicated UHF frequencies. In Niedersachsen, this frequency value leaped out at me as being wrong: T 563000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE These problems are no doubt due to errors in the original source from which you snarfed the data. I suppose I could write a mail to be ignored to the responsible parties... As an end-user (fnarr), some feedback: I find comments including consumer-channel-number very helpful, particularly when correct, so that I don't have to refer to a lookup table when comparing a particular scanfile to press releases or other consumer-focussed propaganda, given that these almost exclusively give only the channel number. That is, grabbing a random file, and pardon any linewrap... T 538000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM64 8k 1/4 NONE # CH29: ARD Das Erste, EinsFestival, arte, Phoenix (TSMB/MDR1.1) T 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE # CH30: 3sat, ZDFDoku/KIKA, ZDF, ZDFInfo (ZDF) T 578000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM64 8k 1/4 NONE # CH34: MDR S-ANHALT, rbb Brandenburg, WDR Koeln, NDR FS NDS (TSMB/MDR2.2) ...the listed channel numbers complement the frequency information and match the majority of what I would find online or in print media. Now, as far as changes since Nov.2008, when a good number of government drones were running about proclaiming that the digital switchover was complete, well, they weren't quite right, but anyhow... There haven't been, as far as I know, any changes since november. There are planned changes to one multiplex frequency in Aalen (BW) and introduction of a new DVB-T site in Bad Mergentheim (BW) and Garmisch-Partenkirchen (BY), if not more, and eventually, abandoning present VHF frequencies, seen in Berlin, parts of Bayern, and as noted, Hamburg, for example. If I ever get around to a more detailed study of each Bundesland, I'll offer more feedback, although I haven't received any concerning my proposed enhancements to B-W some months ago, so it may not matter... Anyway, thanks for your work in merging these; that has cut out a good bit of time I'd spend doing this by hand. barry bouwsma loser -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
