On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Christoph Pfister wrote: > Changes collected by Barry. The de-Baden-Wuerttemberg is a combination > of different transmitters and although I tend not to include it in the > repository (quite hard to maintain) Actually, I expect that -- apart from Bad Mergentheim as noted, exact frequencies not yet discovered -- there should be no changes needed for quite some time. Here's why: As of November 2008, nearly the last of the analogue transmitters in Deutschland were switched over to DVB-T or in the case of filler repeaters, switched off. In addition to the Taubertal, I'm aware that in Bayern, the same will happen to GAP if not one other location. The changed frequencies here as well as in other Bundeslaender now match those assigned in Geneve in 2006, so throughout all the scanfiles, there should be no new changes needed, apart from: A few transmitters are still using Band III VHF channels; these will be changed so that all DVB-T in Germany will be on UHF frequencies. Those are not in this file but to be found in other Bundeslaender. These allocations, resulting from GE06 or RRC06, however you wish to search for it, are expected to suffice for the next 20 or 30 years. (Heh.) Unlike France, which makes use of Multi-Frequency Networks and so every town with transmitter requires a separate scanfile, you can see the re-used frequencies of several SFNs, simplifying the uncommented portion of this list compared with trying to maintain redundant files for each transmitter site. The GE06 frequency plan allocated six plus one UHF frequencies for DVB-T (or DVB-H or other 8MHz bandwidth use), so that in the current frequency layout, three multiplexes are assigned to the oeffentlich-rechtliche broadcasters (PSB), and three reserved for private commercial broadcasters -- the dual system or whatever they call it. Unfortunately, I haven't found readable maps to show the areas and channels assigned for germany (while I have for Suisse). Unlike in, say, France, where private broadcasters are present at each transmitter site, in Germany, the privates have chosen to restrict themselves to a few larger metropolitan areas, such as Muenchen, Hamburg, Frankfurt/Main, and so on, and have shown no interest in even Stuttgart, apparently preferring to rely on CableTV and Satellite, or throwing around the idea, presently on ice, of encrypting their signals, even via DVB-T, and charging a subscription fee. Nor am I aware of any plans for local broadcasts, or any private broadcasts outside of Stuttgart, that don't rely heavily on a government helping hand or are near any sort of realisation. If these assigned and reserved frequencies come into use eventually, they can be added as appropriate -- if I get off my lazy arse and compile the list for Bayern or Hessen, you'll then see those frequencies. Most likely, the ex-Bundespost- Telekom-whoever-they-are-now that manage the broadcast towers and transmitters will use the same locations listed here. The current allocation of three oe-r Muxen and three reserved privates is unlikely to see the parameters changed soon, as DVB-T is not seen as the primary distribution that analogue used to be until the last decade. The Guard Interval matches the SFNs covering a wide area, and the use of almost exclusively high-powered widely-spaced transmitters without fillers needs a robust set of parameters that trade potential bitrate for a better signal under marginal reception (cf. the QAM and FEC used in the Alsace, where I read reports that the quality is readily affected adversely at comparable distances). While HD broadcasts in various forms have started and are due to start within years, I have heard nothing about plans to use DVB-T for them, either by adopting the existing Muxen for them, or taking over the remaining allocated but yet unused channels, possibly using DVB-T2 for that (the existing base of receivers is entirely DVB-T+MPEG-2, unlike in some countries, so a DVB-T+ H.264 hybrid is highly unlikely). Presently satellite is expected to be the primary distribution for HDTV (and thus CATV). This is of course based on what little I know of the broadcasters and I hope you won't hold me to my word if changes are made soon which I've not predicted here. As far as the neighbouring countries, France has started the five or six Muxen assigned by GE06, yet there continue to be some analogue broadcasts receivable along the Oberrhein, until something like 2012 or so. As there are only two MFN transmitter sites which I list, if there are changes made to them in the coming years, that's somewhat easy to fix -- and as I noted as a comment, one of those two scanfiles presently doesn't even give frequencies in useful form. Switzerland has officially* stated there will be only a single frequency used for DVB-T per region, in spite of having received eight frequencies allocated (if I remember right) and has further stated* that DVB-T will remain SD, and HD will not be broadcast terrestrially. A second frequency is used in several areas for DVB-H with little consumer acceptance at present. Whether those proclamations will stand the test of time and still be true in five or ten years, I won't guess. In Suisse, Cable is the primary means of content distribution of broadcast; presumably other non-over-the-air means will also see heavy use (DSL and other IP technologies). Those frequencies shouldn't need any changes -- unless some parameter tweaks are needed to accomplish the stated plans of fitting five programmes onto a single SFN multiplex, which may have happened, I don't know... (*Well, I read it in an interview, and I'm no insider) Also, the existing CH Muxen are the PSB channels, except in some areas far from reach of BaWue; *possibly* there may be use by private broadcasters in areas like Basel or Zuerich if there gets to be enough interest -- presently all local or regional/national(?) private broadcasters are carried exclusively via cable. There is currently more in the way of privates joining a DAB+ radio multiplex... I also know of no plans to add the missing second of each of the language region TV broadcasters to a second DVB-T multiplex or using the same to allow an increased bitrate and quality for the existing channels on the present multiplex. Apart from some spillage from Austria near the Bodensee region, the other areas receiving out-of-area coverage do so from other regions of Germany. Any needed tweaks to the parameters will certainly be effective for all of germany, as of the three PSB Muxen, one (ZDFmobil) is identical throughout all of Germany; the other two are regionally mixed from local PSB broadcasters or the regionalisation of the other national broadcaster (ARD Das Erste). Unlike the switchover in the UK for example, which is being carried out in steps, resulting in the need to change every frequency list (change in ERP, modulation and FFT, frequencies, does the offset disappear?), these frequencies listed here are basically those initially put into service, and, apart from the frequency tweaking (to match GE06; why this was not initially the case is unknown to me), low-maintenance. The alternative I see to this single file is to break it into the 14 sites in BaWue from which DVB-T (will) radiates, which is a lot more work for redundant info, and also makes it hard for those out in the boonies to find a suitable transmitter (quick, where's Brandenkopf or how would you name it instead, and would you even know it's in BaWue if you're not a native of that specific area or a TV/Radio installer?) The other alternative I have is to create a de-all, similar to the ch-all; the latter of which seems to just list the GE06 allocations and makes no mention of what regions see which frequencies -- eventually after I learn the details of all the other Bundeslaender, I might create such a file. The intent of this file is to share what I would create for myself for use when travelling to different regions, as well as to try to present the mental picture of what I create for each region in the unlikely event that anyone would ever hire me back into the broadcasting world where such an overview could be useful. Or something. If anyone else thinks I'm just wasting my time, I'll probably put it on hold until the next time I find myself hitting the road, so feel free to voice your opinions. JEEZ do I write a lot, when I could be reverse-engineering drivers, or doing something useful... barry bouwsma oh, by the way, all I wrote above is from memory without bothering to verify what I vaguely recall reading months ago when unable to sleep, and filtered through an inebriated haze, so trust and believe at your own risk _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@xxxxxxxxxxx http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
