This discussion is getting tiring, at least for me. The only reason I've been reading all of it is because I also am one of the women on this list. As such, I understand that I can be biased in this. I will try my best to express what I feel about this list. I also consider this list one of the more friendly and helpfull lists around. I've been here for a long time and have never taken things personally when I don't get a positive response back about something I believe in. I would rather have people question my assumptions, giving me greater insights. If I percieve to have gotten a load of crap from the guys here I tend to sleep on it and give myself a chance to take the compassionate route; trying to understand where they're coming from. I really like the linux community(especially lau) and would rather see room for understandings, not differences. I would also try my best to work out differences here, bending a litle in the hopes that others will too. I understand all too well that my reality is mine alone, and my perceptions are mine alone. I think I am smart enough not to present something that is more my perception then others, and not expect to get seriously questioned about my ideas. As I said above, I would rather welcome the backlash as a way for me to expand my knowledge. Yes, a few of things said were harsh. I really didn't like seeing what this did to the list or the greater linux community. I myself took issue with Maluvia's perceptions, this being way before I even know her gender. I didn't jump right in and express my initial reaction that this Maluvia person must be nuts; I kept reading for a few days. Sometimes a little patience goes a long ways on everbody's part. If I was the target of ridicule for my own unpopular opinian I would try to be polite about it for a while. One thing I've really learned about people on mailing lists is that the asses show their colours easily, releasing them from being taken seriously even if they have real knowledge of a subject. I think it's getting too late for me to say much more. I'm tired from getting up too early and it being too late now. I hope I got some of my own feelings across on this. Tracey. BTW, I liked the discussions about guitar amps. etc. I learned a lot, thanks.