Nigel Henry wrote: > On Thursday 08 December 2005 16:37, studio-64 wrote: > >>Burkhard Woelfel wrote: >> >>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>Hash: SHA1 >>> >>>On Tuesday 06 December 2005 14:35, Dave Phillips wrote: >>> >>>>Bill Allen wrote: >>>> >>>>>I've been struggling with a technique problem. How do you get your >>>>>vocals to sound good? I know that you can't make a silk purse from a >>>>>sow's ear, but you can make the best of what you've got. >>>> >>>>Hi Bill: >>>> >>>>You also have to remember that you don't hear yourself the way others >>>>hear you. I'm not especially fond of my voice, but I know how to hit the >>>>right notes and other people seem to like it. >>>> >>>>The *sound* of a voice can be effective enough as a carrier of >>>>personality. Bob Dylan is often used as an example of a not-so-beautiful >>>>voice that's perfectly suited to his material. And it's worth mentioning >>>>that Dylan does know how to sing (check out Girl From The North Country). >>> >>>I'd let somebody else sing first, experiment and learn with his or her >>>voice. After a bit of training the feeling of embarrassment wrt my own >>>voice wouldn't be so much of a distraction. >>> >>>BTW, a few weeks ago a friend of mine told me that he really liked a >>>particular song of mine. The voice, he told me, didn't sound like mine at >>>all. Isn't that strange, I was really happy about that. >>> >>>Oh, the miracles of human perception. >> >>Strange, this is exactly what happened to me >>when I sang on my two tracks, thing is, it doesnt sound like me to me!! >> >>Bob > > > This is an interesting comment. I find the same when I record speech onto, for > instance a cassette recorder. I have an accent coming from the Channel > Islands, but don't notice it when I speak. But playing back my recorded voice > is very evident. It may have something to do with the very positive feedback > you get to the brain when you speak or sing, whether your monitoring your > singing/speech with or without headphones. Whereas, when you listen to > yourself after making a recording, your brain is not receiving positive > feedback from your voice. Your brain through your ears is sort of hearing > these sounds for the first time, from another location, and also some delay > involved between the recording and the playback. Of course the other quite > strange behaviour is, when you are listening to music through the headphones > and speak to someone at the same time, you actually speak louder without > realising it, indicating again that the brain, by virtue of positive feedback > from your voice is controlling the level of your voice. A problem noticeable > with folks who have become hearing impaired, or totally deaf. There's > obviously a lot of stuff going on that you don't know about when you sing. > It's only when you listen to the recording that you become aware of it. > > Think Karaoke, and you've had a few too many. What would that sound like the > next day. (That was just for fun). It's been great reading this thread. > Nigel. > Hi Nigel Good points I have a strong northern accent, which as you say I dont hear really (I now live on Cardiff so I get a few commnents!) I dont tend to sing with an accent (I got a few mentions of the doors re the vocal, again I can't hear the semblance) Good Ole brain doing it's thing!! Cheers Bob >>>- - Burkhard >>> >>> >>>>>What combination of plugins and settings do you use to get the best >>>>>sound from vocals particularly in Ardour? >>>> >>>>As you say, there are many to choose from. I like Tim Goetze's Versatile >>>>Plate Reverb, it's easy to control and has some sweet spots that >>>>complement my voice nicely. I also often use the SC4 compressor >>>>(pre-fade) and the TAP Scaling Limiter (post-fade) on the master track. >>>> >>>>As general advice: Pick an effect, preferably one with only a few >>>>controls, and learn what each control does to the sound. In the case of >>>>reverbs, think about the ambience you want to create and make your >>>>initial settings accordingly. Yes, you'll have to experiment, but IMO >>>>that's the best way to learn about these things. >>>> >>>> >>>>>I know that this is one of those subjective questions for which the >>>>>best answer is try it out yourself and find what sounds best, but >>>>>there are so many plugins (an embarassment of riches), each of which >>>>>has many settings, that a brute force search of all the combinations >>>>>would take forever - not to mention that after a while, my poor ears >>>>>become exhausted with the effort and refuse to hear differences >>>>>anymore. So what I'm really looking for is good starting points to >>>>>work from. >>>> >>>>It's easy to be overwhelmed: LADSPA, DSSI, VST/VSTi, all provide that >>>>embarassment of riches. But I figure that the pros don't have the time >>>>to learn everything about everything, so I don't expect it from myself. >>>>I think you should plan carefully: think about what sort of sound you >>>>want to project, think about its characteristics, then start working >>>>towards it with a minimum number of effects. A little 'verb and some >>>>judicious compression go a long way towards making a good basic sound, I >>>>find that for my purposes I use little else. Maybe someday I'll find a >>>>use for chorus and delays, but they'll probably get used on instruments, >>>>not on my voice. >>>> >>>>A few random tips: Stand when you sing. Use a pop filter (I should >>>>follow my own advice). Breathe deeply, you can always erase the noise. >>>>Don't raise your chin when you try to reach notes on the high end of >>>>your range, it tightens the vocal mechanism and works against your >>>>attempt. Relax, you won't sing (or play) well with excess tension. >>>>Consider your input chain, i.e., decent microphones, preamp if >>>>necessary, good hot signal, etc. Don't record with effects in, you'll >>>>fool yourself and it will be harder to fix (I like that Ardour forces >>>>that behaviour). Key your music to complement your available range. >>>> >>>>WRT planning: Do you want to recreate the sound of a small group playing >>>>in a bar ? Or a big band performing in a concert hall ? A rock band >>>>playing an auditorium ? A jazz quartet in your living room ? Each of >>>>these scenarios has some salient characteristics that you should try to >>>>describe and understand in relation to your selected effects. Try >>>>analyzing the vocal sound on some of your favorite recordings in the >>>>same manner. >>>> >>>>Yes, you have to study up on some terminology, but you don't have to >>>>become a DSP engineer. That's what we have Steve Harris here for anyway. >>>>;-) And don't worry about understanding everything right away. It's >>>>enough to know what a compressor does, the rest you'll learn by fiddling >>>>with settings and *listening* to the results. For instance, I use the >>>>SC4 compressor but I'm still sort of blank about exactly what the knee >>>>radius does. Always more to learn. :) >>>> >>>> >>>>>One combination that I like is GVerb to get depth and L/C/R Delay to >>>>>get width. Even with those two getting the settings right takes time. >>>>>For comunication, I've included a jack rack with some settings I've >>>>>found that work OK. I would love your critiques and suggestions for >>>>>other setups. >>>> >>>>GVerb is more complex than I'd advise for a start, but it is a fine >>>>effect and definitely worth learning. Have you tried Freeverb or any of >>>>the other 'verbs from the LADSPA collection ? The TAP reverb is also >>>>superfine (with presets!), but again I'd suggest something even simpler. >>>> >>>>If you really have problems with intonation and pitch acuity you can >>>>always try fixing it in the mix with a pitch shifter plugin and Ardour's >>>>automation control, but that's getting elaborate. You can also try that >>>>infamous vocal "fixer" from Antares, but I don't know if it will run >>>>under any of the current support systems for VST under Linux. It costs >>>>$$ though, and frankly at that point I'd suggest singing lessons. >>>> >>>>You can also use Ardour's excellent editing tools to correct small (and >>>>not so small?) errors in timing. A bit tedious, but worth the effort. >>>> >>>>I listen a lot to the music made by other members of this list. I love >>>>the sound of Pete Bessman's F4, I'd like to know how he got it. I'm also >>>>fond of The Girls, their material is great and their singing is perfect >>>>for it. I like the overall sound they achieve, though it's quite >>>>different from my aims. And I'd commit heinous and unconscionable acts >>>>just to be able to play and sound like Steve Doonan. Lots to be learned >>> >>>>from the folks using the same software (more or less). So many different >>> >>>>genres are represented at http://lam.fugal.net, it's a terrific >>>>resource: if you like a particular piece, you can just write to the >>>>composer and ask how s/he did it. >>>> >>>>Well, there's my contribution to the thread. HTH. :) >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>>dp >>> >>>- -- >>> >>> >>> Libre Audio, Libre Video, Libre Software: www.AGNULA.org >>> Get DeMuDi, the GNU/Linux distribution for multimedia creation >>> Download and information: http://demudi.agnula.org/ >>> >>> Public key available here: >>><http://blackhole.pca.dfn.de:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xFD82303B> >>>key FP 0A65 5E83 F44F 47A5 3DFC 19C5 7779 E411 FD82 303B >>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>>iQEVAwUBQ5g5VGA1EUeMSxn+AQLOBggAiRaP7+pA+taWP0XXA7hywg+Y0h3HX2Ci >>>sfZNnXo+Hv/HdDG0Ms3Z9IDHiUHwPsWxB2IJQz77Jtfsjk1MuJlmANdFGaGDXHfy >>>J7m3clM15VFTGiZhR6CwPh82AaviodIg5+hZdBzs9Rb5Wuyjo3KnAnUYCrfhlu6s >>>xK9fBTyjXMX5jls2gEK5OVD4ImAebiVdyxocSll3VpHmLs7zmAzja44jJYX6eon2 >>>5IRUi1fRGCXiLUCDBFSRW2jPw4XzOkbz0n4eLZ7ha4xl6dhf1C7+zc7U6Rkv91j4 >>>YmiAae7Q8HhSExJJxA7a9ygDTt6EMCw8znCnSl1gTK2kHc4Zars+nQ== >>>=DfoE >>>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Bearmusic hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
