On Thursday 08 December 2005 16:37, studio-64 wrote: > Burkhard Woelfel wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Tuesday 06 December 2005 14:35, Dave Phillips wrote: > >>Bill Allen wrote: > >>>I've been struggling with a technique problem. How do you get your > >>>vocals to sound good? I know that you can't make a silk purse from a > >>>sow's ear, but you can make the best of what you've got. > >> > >>Hi Bill: > >> > >>You also have to remember that you don't hear yourself the way others > >>hear you. I'm not especially fond of my voice, but I know how to hit the > >>right notes and other people seem to like it. > >> > >>The *sound* of a voice can be effective enough as a carrier of > >>personality. Bob Dylan is often used as an example of a not-so-beautiful > >>voice that's perfectly suited to his material. And it's worth mentioning > >>that Dylan does know how to sing (check out Girl From The North Country). > > > > I'd let somebody else sing first, experiment and learn with his or her > > voice. After a bit of training the feeling of embarrassment wrt my own > > voice wouldn't be so much of a distraction. > > > > BTW, a few weeks ago a friend of mine told me that he really liked a > > particular song of mine. The voice, he told me, didn't sound like mine at > > all. Isn't that strange, I was really happy about that. > > > > Oh, the miracles of human perception. > > Strange, this is exactly what happened to me > when I sang on my two tracks, thing is, it doesnt sound like me to me!! > > Bob This is an interesting comment. I find the same when I record speech onto, for instance a cassette recorder. I have an accent coming from the Channel Islands, but don't notice it when I speak. But playing back my recorded voice is very evident. It may have something to do with the very positive feedback you get to the brain when you speak or sing, whether your monitoring your singing/speech with or without headphones. Whereas, when you listen to yourself after making a recording, your brain is not receiving positive feedback from your voice. Your brain through your ears is sort of hearing these sounds for the first time, from another location, and also some delay involved between the recording and the playback. Of course the other quite strange behaviour is, when you are listening to music through the headphones and speak to someone at the same time, you actually speak louder without realising it, indicating again that the brain, by virtue of positive feedback from your voice is controlling the level of your voice. A problem noticeable with folks who have become hearing impaired, or totally deaf. There's obviously a lot of stuff going on that you don't know about when you sing. It's only when you listen to the recording that you become aware of it. Think Karaoke, and you've had a few too many. What would that sound like the next day. (That was just for fun). It's been great reading this thread. Nigel. > > > - - Burkhard > > > >>>What combination of plugins and settings do you use to get the best > >>>sound from vocals particularly in Ardour? > >> > >>As you say, there are many to choose from. I like Tim Goetze's Versatile > >>Plate Reverb, it's easy to control and has some sweet spots that > >>complement my voice nicely. I also often use the SC4 compressor > >>(pre-fade) and the TAP Scaling Limiter (post-fade) on the master track. > >> > >>As general advice: Pick an effect, preferably one with only a few > >>controls, and learn what each control does to the sound. In the case of > >>reverbs, think about the ambience you want to create and make your > >>initial settings accordingly. Yes, you'll have to experiment, but IMO > >>that's the best way to learn about these things. > >> > >>>I know that this is one of those subjective questions for which the > >>>best answer is try it out yourself and find what sounds best, but > >>>there are so many plugins (an embarassment of riches), each of which > >>>has many settings, that a brute force search of all the combinations > >>>would take forever - not to mention that after a while, my poor ears > >>>become exhausted with the effort and refuse to hear differences > >>>anymore. So what I'm really looking for is good starting points to > >>>work from. > >> > >>It's easy to be overwhelmed: LADSPA, DSSI, VST/VSTi, all provide that > >>embarassment of riches. But I figure that the pros don't have the time > >>to learn everything about everything, so I don't expect it from myself. > >>I think you should plan carefully: think about what sort of sound you > >>want to project, think about its characteristics, then start working > >>towards it with a minimum number of effects. A little 'verb and some > >>judicious compression go a long way towards making a good basic sound, I > >>find that for my purposes I use little else. Maybe someday I'll find a > >>use for chorus and delays, but they'll probably get used on instruments, > >>not on my voice. > >> > >>A few random tips: Stand when you sing. Use a pop filter (I should > >>follow my own advice). Breathe deeply, you can always erase the noise. > >>Don't raise your chin when you try to reach notes on the high end of > >>your range, it tightens the vocal mechanism and works against your > >>attempt. Relax, you won't sing (or play) well with excess tension. > >>Consider your input chain, i.e., decent microphones, preamp if > >>necessary, good hot signal, etc. Don't record with effects in, you'll > >>fool yourself and it will be harder to fix (I like that Ardour forces > >>that behaviour). Key your music to complement your available range. > >> > >>WRT planning: Do you want to recreate the sound of a small group playing > >>in a bar ? Or a big band performing in a concert hall ? A rock band > >>playing an auditorium ? A jazz quartet in your living room ? Each of > >>these scenarios has some salient characteristics that you should try to > >>describe and understand in relation to your selected effects. Try > >>analyzing the vocal sound on some of your favorite recordings in the > >>same manner. > >> > >>Yes, you have to study up on some terminology, but you don't have to > >>become a DSP engineer. That's what we have Steve Harris here for anyway. > >>;-) And don't worry about understanding everything right away. It's > >>enough to know what a compressor does, the rest you'll learn by fiddling > >>with settings and *listening* to the results. For instance, I use the > >>SC4 compressor but I'm still sort of blank about exactly what the knee > >>radius does. Always more to learn. :) > >> > >>>One combination that I like is GVerb to get depth and L/C/R Delay to > >>>get width. Even with those two getting the settings right takes time. > >>>For comunication, I've included a jack rack with some settings I've > >>>found that work OK. I would love your critiques and suggestions for > >>>other setups. > >> > >>GVerb is more complex than I'd advise for a start, but it is a fine > >>effect and definitely worth learning. Have you tried Freeverb or any of > >>the other 'verbs from the LADSPA collection ? The TAP reverb is also > >>superfine (with presets!), but again I'd suggest something even simpler. > >> > >>If you really have problems with intonation and pitch acuity you can > >>always try fixing it in the mix with a pitch shifter plugin and Ardour's > >>automation control, but that's getting elaborate. You can also try that > >>infamous vocal "fixer" from Antares, but I don't know if it will run > >>under any of the current support systems for VST under Linux. It costs > >>$$ though, and frankly at that point I'd suggest singing lessons. > >> > >>You can also use Ardour's excellent editing tools to correct small (and > >>not so small?) errors in timing. A bit tedious, but worth the effort. > >> > >>I listen a lot to the music made by other members of this list. I love > >>the sound of Pete Bessman's F4, I'd like to know how he got it. I'm also > >>fond of The Girls, their material is great and their singing is perfect > >>for it. I like the overall sound they achieve, though it's quite > >>different from my aims. And I'd commit heinous and unconscionable acts > >>just to be able to play and sound like Steve Doonan. Lots to be learned > >>from the folks using the same software (more or less). So many different > >>genres are represented at http://lam.fugal.net, it's a terrific > >>resource: if you like a particular piece, you can just write to the > >>composer and ask how s/he did it. > >> > >>Well, there's my contribution to the thread. HTH. :) > >> > >>Best, > >> > >>dp > > > > - -- > > > > > > Libre Audio, Libre Video, Libre Software: www.AGNULA.org > > Get DeMuDi, the GNU/Linux distribution for multimedia creation > > Download and information: http://demudi.agnula.org/ > > > > Public key available here: > > <http://blackhole.pca.dfn.de:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xFD82303B> > > key FP 0A65 5E83 F44F 47A5 3DFC 19C5 7779 E411 FD82 303B > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iQEVAwUBQ5g5VGA1EUeMSxn+AQLOBggAiRaP7+pA+taWP0XXA7hywg+Y0h3HX2Ci > > sfZNnXo+Hv/HdDG0Ms3Z9IDHiUHwPsWxB2IJQz77Jtfsjk1MuJlmANdFGaGDXHfy > > J7m3clM15VFTGiZhR6CwPh82AaviodIg5+hZdBzs9Rb5Wuyjo3KnAnUYCrfhlu6s > > xK9fBTyjXMX5jls2gEK5OVD4ImAebiVdyxocSll3VpHmLs7zmAzja44jJYX6eon2 > > 5IRUi1fRGCXiLUCDBFSRW2jPw4XzOkbz0n4eLZ7ha4xl6dhf1C7+zc7U6Rkv91j4 > > YmiAae7Q8HhSExJJxA7a9ygDTt6EMCw8znCnSl1gTK2kHc4Zars+nQ== > > =DfoE > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
