On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 14:03, tim hall wrote: > Last Saturday 27 November 2004 21:36, Lee Revell was like: > > On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 15:43 -0500, Lee Revell wrote: > > > > Did this happen? > > > > > > Maybe not to them but look at Mackie and Behringer. > > > > Just to save people some googling here is a thread that documents the > > long and colorful history of pro audio hardware manufacturers blatantly > > ripping each other off, often leaving the victims with no legal > > recourse: > > > > http://homerecording.com/bbs/archive/index.php/t-74439.html > > > > IMO the issue is not whether RME's concern is valid - clearly it is. > > Sorry, but arguing otherwise makes us look stupid and naive. The issue > > is how to address this concern. If that means a closed source Linux > > driver, fine. > > > > Maybe the reason no firewire hardware is supported is because Behringer > > and their ilk would instantly have all the info they need to copy the > > design and mass produce it. Doesn't matter how cheap the device is to > > design - it will _always_ be cheaper to rip someone off than design it > > yourself. They can even sell at a loss, due to huge cash reserves - > > they only need to sustain it long enough to put the competition out of > > business. In the case of the "Swizz Army Tuner", the original designers > > were ripped off by Behringer, but a lawsuit would have bankrupted them > > _even if they won_ so could not take action. > > > > I think many people in this thread underestimate how cutthroat the > > hardware business is. > > Yeah, If I was the MD of RME, after reading some of the responses on this > thread I'd be thinking of flippin' the bird at all these ungrateful linux > users. I think it's about defending the position of open source and its nature. And the work that people do here no matter whether for fun or not. >From now on every company that doesn't do it like audioscience does, is a plain loser to me, no matter whether they provide specs or not. It's because other people do the actual work + support providing. If MacOSX can have them, so can we, we have a greater marketshare. Why the heck should we *always* understand them? Why can't they understand *us*? > We're a minority group and I think the onus is on us to convince RME > to produce a driver for their firewire hardware, politely and if necessary, > via the florists ;-). OK, so closed-source drivers are far from ideal, but > better than a hole in the head. http://www.audioscience.com If they can, who can't? I can't see the difference, can anyone explain? > > It means that the drivers can't be bundled with distros and we won't be able > to provide users & developers with technical support, which is a great shame. > > However, I suspect a certain amount of well-reasoned persistence will pay off > here. Sure, our numbers on this list aren't great, but they are significant. There are many audio hw customers outside of this list (see CK's post for example, or judging form experience - somewhere on #gnome talking about rme ;) plus tons of talks on #lad - Q: "hi, what's the best card for audio under linux? A: "rme or if you don't have that much money, maudio") > > OK, _very_ few people are using firewire technology for music, up till now I'd > considered it the preserve of mac/motu users. I think a majority of pc based audio hw will be fw based in the near future. Every manufacturer will have at least one product. Scary. > I think we should continue to > support RME where licenses allow and look forward to the day that they > release their firewire drivers :-). That is going to be the day their hw becomes redundant on the market? Or even discontinued? That's the problem i'm seeing. > I think we should keep up the pressure on > manufacturers like MOTU too. They'll see sense eventually. ;-] I doubt it. They have their own sw products, like the DP. In their case i can pretty much understand why they don't do that if they see linux audio as a competition. > > Mine is an equally naive viewpoint, but with the knowledge that a little bit > of positive thinking can go a long way, especially when backed up with a > well-researched wish-list and plenty of patience. 2 years korg and now this. Trust me it's not possible to cope with that for a long time :) Marek
