On Sat, 21 May 2016 07:38:10 +0200 (CEST), Tim Goetze wrote:
>[Ralf Mardorf]
>>On Fri, 20 May 2016 01:41:15 +0200, William Light wrote:
>>>Dismissing a technique just because you've never personally used it
>>>is short-sighted.
>>
>>We explained that this technique due to it's nature is used on stereo
>>signals, assumed you don't have access to the individual original
>>signals and that it doesn't provide something useful, if you have full
>>access to the individual channels.
>
>Have you ever listened to the music William makes? You may not like
>its electronic style, but it takes a deaf person not to notice how it
>weaves a multitude of sounds into a coherent whole that's admirably
>transparent to the ear (and it would take a fool to condescendingly
>brush aside the ideas of the mind that shaped this music).
Hi Tim,
please explain what it gains.
Summarized:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 08:57:59 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 08:10:32PM -0400, jonetsu@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> What are your thoughts on M/S EQ processing ?
>
>Can be useful in some rare cases.
Fons didn't mention what those rare cases are.
On Thu, 19 May 2016 17:07:46 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>On Thu, 19 May 2016 16:18:44 +0200, William Light wrote:
>>On Tue, 17 May 2016, at 15:45, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>> But: M/S processing is really only useful when you are remastering
>>> a stereo mix without access to the individual components, or maybe
>>> if you are dealing with stereo mic recordings as part of a larger
>>> mix. If you are creating a multitrack mix from individual channels,
>>> M/S buys you exactly nothing that couldn't be done better and more
>>> precisely in the individual channels.
Jörn explained what those rare cases are.
>>Disagree vehemently, M/S processing gives very natural control of the
>>stereo image. I find that I use M/S EQing when I want to shape the
>>stereo image subtly and M/S compression when I want to exaggerate it
>>or make it more exciting.
Wiliam disagreed with Jörn's explanation, but didn't mentioned why he
doesn't agree with Jörn.
>In more than 30 years of audio recording I _never_ used M/S processing.
>M/S microphone technique is something else and is useful, because it
>does cause a mono-compatible signal, due to not being based on travel
>To "exaggerate" a signal by intensity with a mixing console, just pan
>pots are required. IOW Jörn is right, if you have full access to the
>individual components, you could use pan pots instead (more than one
>channel completely to the left and the other completely to the right
>is impossible), resp. you could use more enhanced techniques to widen
>or "shape the stereo image subtly". "Natural" stereo hearing is much
>based on travel time as well as intensity.
I pointed out, that if you have full access to all components of a mix,
the left/right intensity could be controlled by the pan pots (in
combination with the faders and EQs ;). In my reply to Wiliam's
question what kind of enhanced techniques are available, I mentioned
that if e.g. an effect shouldn't spread the stereo signal wide enough,
choosing another effect gives you better control.
So again, what exactly is M/S processing useful for daily mixing music
and what's wrong with Jörn's points and where I'm mistaken?
There is a karaoke effect, the voice canceler, that tries to cancel out
the vocals, by eliminating mid-range sounds panned to the centre. This
might be useful, if you don't have access to the original multi-track
recording, but as soon as you have got access to the original
multi-track recording, muting the vocal tracks is the easier way to do
it and the result is much better. IOW, if not doing karaoke, but
instead mixing music in a studio, using voice canceling processing gains
you nothing compared to muting the vocal tracks.
What is M/S processing good for, that can't be done easier and
better, apart from what Jörn mentioned?
Please explain why we are mistaken?
Regards,
Ralf
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