On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 10:16:37 +0100
Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 09:45:52 +0100
> Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 01:23:48 +0200
> > Thomas Gleixner <tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Russell!
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 12 2024 at 22:52, Russell King (Oracle) wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 10:54:32PM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> > > >> > As for the cpu locking, I couldn't find anything in arch_register_cpu()
> > > >> > that depends on the cpu_maps_update stuff nor needs the cpus_write_lock
> > > >> > being taken - so I've no idea why the "make_present" case takes these
> > > >> > locks.
> > > >>
> > > >> Anything which updates a CPU mask, e.g. cpu_present_mask, after early
> > > >> boot must hold the appropriate write locks. Otherwise it would be
> > > >> possible to online a CPU which just got marked present, but the
> > > >> registration has not completed yet.
> > > >
> > > > Yes. As far as I've been able to determine, arch_register_cpu()
> > > > doesn't manipulate any of the CPU masks. All it seems to be doing
> > > > is initialising the struct cpu, registering the embedded struct
> > > > device, and setting up the sysfs links to its NUMA node.
> > > >
> > > > There is nothing obvious in there which manipulates any CPU masks, and
> > > > this is rather my fundamental point when I said "I couldn't find
> > > > anything in arch_register_cpu() that depends on ...".
> > > >
> > > > If there is something, then comments in the code would be a useful aid
> > > > because it's highly non-obvious where such a manipulation is located,
> > > > and hence why the locks are necessary.
> > >
> > > acpi_processor_hotadd_init()
> > > ...
> > > acpi_map_cpu(pr->handle, pr->phys_id, pr->acpi_id, &pr->id);
> > >
> > > That ends up in fiddling with cpu_present_mask.
> > >
> > > I grant you that arch_register_cpu() is not, but it might rely on the
> > > external locking too. I could not be bothered to figure that out.
> > >
> > > >> Define "real hotplug" :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Real physical hotplug does not really exist. That's at least true for
> > > >> x86, where the physical hotplug support was chased for a while, but
> > > >> never ended up in production.
> > > >>
> > > >> Though virtualization happily jumped on it to hot add/remove CPUs
> > > >> to/from a guest.
> > > >>
> > > >> There are limitations to this and we learned it the hard way on X86. At
> > > >> the end we came up with the following restrictions:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) All possible CPUs have to be advertised at boot time via firmware
> > > >> (ACPI/DT/whatever) independent of them being present at boot time
> > > >> or not.
> > > >>
> > > >> That guarantees proper sizing and ensures that associations
> > > >> between hardware entities and software representations and the
> > > >> resulting topology are stable for the lifetime of a system.
> > > >>
> > > >> It is really required to know the full topology of the system at
> > > >> boot time especially with hybrid CPUs where some of the cores
> > > >> have hyperthreading and the others do not.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> 2) Hot add can only mark an already registered (possible) CPU
> > > >> present. Adding non-registered CPUs after boot is not possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> The CPU must have been registered in #1 already to ensure that
> > > >> the system topology does not suddenly change in an incompatible
> > > >> way at run-time.
> > > >>
> > > >> The same restriction would apply to real physical hotplug. I don't think
> > > >> that's any different for ARM64 or any other architecture.
> > > >
> > > > This makes me wonder whether the Arm64 has been barking up the wrong
> > > > tree then, and whether the whole "present" vs "enabled" thing comes
> > > > from a misunderstanding as far as a CPU goes.
> > > >
> > > > However, there is a big difference between the two. On x86, a processor
> > > > is just a processor. On Arm64, a "processor" is a slice of the system
> > > > (includes the interrupt controller, PMUs etc) and we must enumerate
> > > > those even when the processor itself is not enabled. This is the whole
> > > > reason there's a difference between "present" and "enabled" and why
> > > > there's a difference between x86 cpu hotplug and arm64 cpu hotplug.
> > > > The processor never actually goes away in arm64, it's just prevented
> > > > from being used.
> > >
> > > It's the same on X86 at least in the physical world.
> >
> > There were public calls on this via the Linaro Open Discussions group,
> > so I can talk a little about how we ended up here. Note that (in my
> > opinion) there is zero chance of this changing - it took us well over
> > a year to get to this conclusion. So if we ever want ARM vCPU HP
> > we need to work within these constraints.
> >
> > The ARM architecture folk (the ones defining the ARM ARM, relevant ACPI
> > specs etc, not the kernel maintainers) are determined that they want
> > to retain the option to do real physical CPU hotplug in the future
> > with all the necessary work around dynamic interrupt controller
> > initialization, debug and many other messy corners.
> >
> > Thus anything defined had to be structured in a way that was 'different'
> > from that.
> >
> > I don't mind the proposed flattening of the 2 paths if the ARM kernel
> > maintainers are fine with it but it will remove the distinctions and
> > we will need to be very careful with the CPU masks - we can't handle
> > them the same as x86 does.
> >
> > I'll get on with doing that, but do need input from Will / Catalin / James.
> > There are some quirks that need calling out as it's not quite a simple
> > as it appears from a high level.
> >
> > Another part of that long discussion established that there is userspace
> > (Android IIRC) in which the CPU present mask must include all CPUs
> > at boot. To change that would be userspace ABI breakage so we can't
> > do that. Hence the dance around adding yet another mask to allow the
> > OS to understand which CPUs are 'present' but not possible to online.
> >
> > Flattening the two paths removes any distinction between calls that
> > are for real hotplug and those that are for this online capable path.
> > As a side note, the indicating bit for these flows is defined in ACPI
> > for x86 from ACPI 6.3 as a flag in Processor Local APIC
> > (the ARM64 definition is a cut and paste of that text). So someone
> > is interested in this distinction on x86. I can't say who but if
> > you have a mantis account you can easily follow the history and it
> > might be instructive to not everyone considering the current x86
> > flow the right way to do it.
>
> Would a higher level check to catch that we are hitting undefined
> territory on arm64 be acceptable? That might satisfy the constraint
> that we should not have any software for arm64 that would run if
> physical CPU HP is added to the arch in future. Something like:
>
> @@ -331,6 +331,13 @@ static int acpi_processor_get_info(struct acpi_device *device)
>
> c = &per_cpu(cpu_devices, pr->id);
> ACPI_COMPANION_SET(&c->dev, device);
> +
> + if (!IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_ACPI_CPU_HOTPLUG_CPU) &&
> + (invalid_logical_cpuid(pr->id) || !cpu_present(pr->id))) {
> + pr_err_once("Changing CPU present bit is not supported\n");
> + return -ENODEV;
> + }
> +
>
> This is basically lifting the check out of the acpi_processor_make_present()
> call in this patch set.
>
> With that in place before the new shared call I think we should be fine
> wrt to the ARM Architecture requirements.
As discussed elsewhere in this thread, I'll push this into the arm64
specific arch_register_cpu() definition.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> /*
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > tglx
> > >
> >
> >
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