Am 7/7/2023 um 7:25 PM schrieb Olivier Dion:
On Fri, 07 Jul 2023, Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[...]
This is a request for comments on extending the atomic builtins API to
help avoiding redundant memory barriers. Indeed, there are
discrepancies between the Linux kernel consistency memory model (LKMM)
and the C11/C++11 memory consistency model [0]. For example,
fully-ordered atomic operations like xchg and cmpxchg success in LKMM
have implicit memory barriers before/after the operations [1-2], while
atomic operations using the __ATOMIC_SEQ_CST memory order in C11/C++11
do not have any ordering guarantees of an atomic thread fence
__ATOMIC_SEQ_CST with respect to other non-SEQ_CST operations [3].
The issues run quite a bit deeper than this. The two models have two
completely different perspectives that are quite much incompatible.
Agreed. Our intent is not to close the gap completely, but to reduce
the gap between the two models, by supporting the "full barrier
before/after" semantic of LKMM in the C11/C++11 memory model.
I think what you're trying to achieve has nothing to do with the gap at
all. (But do check out the IMM paper https://plv.mpi-sws.org/imm/ for
what is involved in bridging the gap between LKMM-like and C11-like models).
What you're trying to achieve is to certify some urcu algorithms,
without making the code unnecessarily slower.
Your problem is that the algorithm is implemented using the LKMM API,
and you want to check it with a tool (TSAN) meant to (dynamically)
analyze C11 code that relies on a subset of C11's memory model.
What I still don't understand is whether using TSAN as-is is a formal
requirement from the certification you are trying to achieve, or whether
you could either slightly modify the TSAN toolchain to give answers
consistent with the behavior on LKMM, or use a completely different tool.
For example, you could eliminate the worry about the unnecessary
barriers by including the extra barriers only in the TSAN' (modified
TSAN) analysis.
In that case TSAN' adds additional, redundant barriers in some cases
during the analysis process, but those barriers would be gone the moment
you stop using TSAN'.
You would need to argue that this additional instrumentation doesn't
hide any data races, but I suspect that wouldn't be too hard.
Another possibility is to use a tool like Dat3M that supports LKMM to
try and verify your code, but I'm not sure if these tools are
feature-complete enough to verify the specific algorithms you have in
mind (e.g., mixed-size accesses are an issue, and Paul told me there's a
few of those in (U)RCU. But maybe the cost of changing the code to
full-sized accesses might be cheaper than relying on extra barriers.)
FWIW your current solution of adding a whole class of fences to
essentially C11 and the toolchain, and modifying the code to use these
fences, isn't a way I would want to take.
I think all you can really do is bridge the gap at the level of the
generated assembly. I.e., don't bridge the gap between LKMM and the
C11 MCM. Bridge the gap between the assembly code generated by C11
atomics and the one generated by LKMM. But I'm not sure that's really
the task here.
[...]
However, nothing prevents a toolchain from changing the emitted
assembler in the future, which would make things fragile. The only
thing that is guaranteed to not change is the definitions in the
standard (C11/C++11). Anything else is fair game for optimizations.
Not quite. If you rely on the LKMM API to generate the final code, you
can definitely prove that the LKMM API implementation has a C11-like
memory model abstraction.
For example, you might be able to prove that the LKMM implementation of
a strong xchg guarantees at least the same ordering as a seq_cst fence ;
seq_cst xchg ; seq_cst fence sequence in C11.
I don't think it's that fragile since 1) it's a manually written
volatile assembler mapping, so there's not really a lot the toolchains
can do about it and 2) the LKMM implementation of atomics rarely
changes, and should still have similar guarantees after the change.
The main issue will be as we discussed before and below that TSAN will
still trigger false positives.
[...] For example, to make Read-Modify-Write (RMW) operations match
the Linux kernel "full barrier before/after" semantics, the liburcu's
uatomic API has to emit both a SEQ_CST RMW operation and a subsequent
thread fence SEQ_CST, which leads to duplicated barriers in some cases.
Does it have to though? Can't you just do e.g. an release RMW
operation followed by an after_atomic fence? And for loads, a
SEQ_CST fence followed by an acquire load? Analogously (but: mirrored)
for stores.
That would not improve anything for RMW. Consider the following example
and its resulting assembler on x86-64 gcc 13.1 -O2:
int exchange(int *x, int y)
{
int r = __atomic_exchange_n(x, y, __ATOMIC_RELEASE);
__atomic_thread_fence(__ATOMIC_SEQ_CST);
return r;
}
exchange:
movl %esi, %eax
xchgl (%rdi), %eax
lock orq $0, (%rsp) ;; Redundant with previous exchange
ret
I specifically meant the after_atomic fence from LKMM, which will
compile to nothing on x86 (not even a compiler barrier).
However, at that point I also wasn't clear on what you're trying to
achieve. I see now that using LKMM barriers doesn't help you here.
You mentioned that the goal is to check some code written using LKMM
primitives with TSAN due to some formal requirements. What exactly do
these requirements entail? Do you need to check the code exactly as it
will be executed (modulo the TSAN instrumentation)? Is it an option to
map to normal builtins with suboptimal performance just for the
verification purpose, but then run the slightly more optimized
original code later?
We aim to validate with TSAN the code that will run during production,
minus TSAN itself.
Specifically for TSAN's ordering requirements, you may need to make
LKMM's RMWs into acq+rel with an extra mb, even if all that extra
ordering isn't necessary at the assembler level.
Also note that no matter what you do, due to the two different
perspectives, TSAN's hb relation may introduce false positive data
races w.r.t. LKMM. For example, if the happens-before ordering is
guaranteed through pb starting with coe/fre.
This is why we have implemented our primitives and changed our
algorithms so that they use the acquire/release semantics of the
C11/C++11 memory model.
Without thinking too hard, it seems to me no matter what fences and
barriers you introduce, TSAN will not see this kind of ordering and
consider the situation a data race.
We have come to the same conclusion, mainly because TSAN does not
support thread fence in its verifications.
That's also a concern (although I thought they fixed that a year or two
ago, but I must be mistaken).
What I mean is that even if TSAN appropriately used all fences for
hb-analysis, and even if you added strong fences all over your code,
there are (as far as I can see) still cases where TSAN will tell you
there's a data race (on C11) but there isn't one on LKMM.
good luck
jonas
