On 02/08/2018 02:16, Alex Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 18:37:35 +1000 > Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> On 01/08/2018 00:29, Alex Williamson wrote: >>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:03:35 +1000 >>> Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> On 31/07/2018 02:29, Alex Williamson wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 18:58:49 +1000 >>>>> Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> After some local discussions, it was pointed out that force disabling >>>>>> nvlinks won't bring us much as for an nvlink to work, both sides need to >>>>>> enable it so malicious guests cannot penetrate good ones (or a host) >>>>>> unless a good guest enabled the link but won't happen with a well >>>>>> behaving guest. And if two guests became malicious, then can still only >>>>>> harm each other, and so can they via other ways such network. This is >>>>>> different from PCIe as once PCIe link is unavoidably enabled, a well >>>>>> behaving device cannot firewall itself from peers as it is up to the >>>>>> upstream bridge(s) now to decide the routing; with nvlink2, a GPU still >>>>>> has means to protect itself, just like a guest can run "firewalld" for >>>>>> network. >>>>>> >>>>>> Although it would be a nice feature to have an extra barrier between >>>>>> GPUs, is inability to block the links in hypervisor still a blocker for >>>>>> V100 pass through? >>>>> >>>>> How is the NVLink configured by the guest, is it 'on'/'off' or are >>>>> specific routes configured? >>>> >>>> The GPU-GPU links need not to be blocked and need to be enabled >>>> (==trained) by a driver in the guest. There are no routes between GPUs >>>> in NVLink fabric, these are direct links, it is just a switch on each >>>> side, both switches need to be on for a link to work. >>> >>> Ok, but there is at least the possibility of multiple direct links per >>> GPU, the very first diagram I find of NVlink shows 8 interconnected >>> GPUs: >>> >>> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/nvlink/ >> >> Out design is like the left part of the picture but it is just a detail. > > Unless we can specifically identify a direct link vs a mesh link, we > shouldn't be making assumptions about the degree of interconnect. > >>> So if each switch enables one direct, point to point link, how does the >>> guest know which links to open for which peer device? >> >> It uses PCI config space on GPUs to discover the topology. > > So do we need to virtualize this config space if we're going to > virtualize the topology? > >>> And of course >>> since we can't see the spec, a security audit is at best hearsay :-\ >> >> Yup, the exact discovery protocol is hidden. > > It could be reverse engineered... > >>>> The GPU-CPU links - the GPU bit is the same switch, the CPU NVlink state >>>> is controlled via the emulated PCI bridges which I pass through together >>>> with the GPU. >>> >>> So there's a special emulated switch, is that how the guest knows which >>> GPUs it can enable NVLinks to? >> >> Since it only has PCI config space (there is nothing relevant in the >> device tree at all), I assume (double checking with the NVIDIA folks >> now) the guest driver enables them all, tests which pair works and >> disables the ones which do not. This gives a malicious guest a tiny >> window of opportunity to break into a good guest. Hm :-/ > > Let's not minimize that window, that seems like a prime candidate for > an exploit. > >>>>> If the former, then isn't a non-malicious >>>>> guest still susceptible to a malicious guest? >>>> >>>> A non-malicious guest needs to turn its switch on for a link to a GPU >>>> which belongs to a malicious guest. >>> >>> Actual security, or obfuscation, will we ever know... >>>>>> If the latter, how is >>>>> routing configured by the guest given that the guest view of the >>>>> topology doesn't match physical hardware? Are these routes >>>>> deconfigured by device reset? Are they part of the save/restore >>>>> state? Thanks, >>> >>> Still curious what happens to these routes on reset. Can a later user >>> of a GPU inherit a device where the links are already enabled? Thanks, >> >> I am told that the GPU reset disables links. As a side effect, we get an >> HMI (a hardware fault which reset the host machine) when trying >> accessing the GPU RAM which indicates that the link is down as the >> memory is only accessible via the nvlink. We have special fencing code >> in our host firmware (skiboot) to fence this memory on PCI reset so >> reading from it returns zeroes instead of HMIs. > > What sort of reset is required for this? Typically we rely on > secondary bus reset for GPUs, but it would be a problem if GPUs were to > start implementing FLR and nobody had a spec to learn that FLR maybe > didn't disable the link. The better approach to me still seems to be > virtualizing these NVLink config registers to an extent that the user > can only enabling links where they have ownership of both ends of the > connection. Thanks, I re-read what I wrote and I owe some explanation. The link state can be: - disabled (or masked), - enabled (or not-disabled? unmasked?), - trained (configured). At the moment no reset disables links, on sec bus reset they are unconfigured and go to the initial enabled-and-not-trained state which is the default config. The NVIDIA driver in the guest trains links to do the topology discovery. We can disable links and this disabled status remains until sec bus reset and there is no way to re-enable links other than sec bus reset. This is what I get from NVIDIA. FLR should not be able to change a thing here. -- Alexey
