Hi Shih-Wei,
(Please try to refrain from top-posting on these lists.)
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 09:55:49PM -0500, Shih-Wei Li wrote:
> Hi Christoffer,
>
> In the previous patch, we did the avg and min/max altogether in a
> single function, in which we can skip the test (and output msg to tell
> the user about it) if its cost is smaller than 1 cnnfrq for more than
> X times.
The problem is not just about the cost being smaller than a single tick,
it's also about granularity. Even if I get one tick, on some platform
all that tells me is "this took between 2000 and 4000 cycles". That's
not very precise...
>
> I think we can use two functions, one for "avg" and one for
> "minx_max_std" as you mentioned if it looks more straightforward. We
> can first run the avg() and check if the result can be valid, if yes,
> then we can proceed to do the min_max_std() test; otherwise, we just
> tell the users that we cannot get valid results from the targeted
> test. Is this close what you proposed earlier?
I think what we're most commonly interested in is the average cost of an
operation when it is repeated many times. I think the best way you can
achieve a reasonable and accurate measurement of that is using my
proposal below, where you don't read the counter for every single tiny
operation, but you average it out over NTIMES.
I think you should focus on doing that first, and getting this clean and
correct, which should help with some of the concerns about checking for
overflows etc., which really only applied to the cycle counter and not
the arch counter.
Then, in a separate follow-up patch, I think it would be helpful to
introduce the framework that lets you do more fine-grained measurements,
including min/max/std/mean, which people like me can use when tweaking
the system to actually use the cycle counter from the PMU instead. This
patch would then need to validate the cycle counter reads to some
degree.
>
> And yes, I can set NTIMES in avg() (and min_max_std()) as a constant
> value for now.
>
It should be trivial to add an additional patch in the end that lets the
user override NTIMES, but again, just introduce it as a separate patch
if it makes things easier.
Thanks,
-Christoffer
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 4:23 AM, Christoffer Dall
> <christoffer.dall@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 09:30:28AM +0100, Andrew Jones wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 09:17:55AM +0100, Christoffer Dall wrote:
> >> > Hi Shih-Wei,
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 04:57:55PM -0500, Shih-Wei Li wrote:
> >> > > Thanks for the feedback about the mistakes in math and some issues in
> >> > > naming, print msg, and coding style. I'll be careful and try to avoid
> >> > > the same problems the next patch set. Sorry for all of the confusion.
> >> > >
> >> > > So we now skip the test when "sample == 0" happens over 1000 times.
> >> > > This is only due to the case that "cost is < 1/cntfrq" since it's not
> >> > > possible for the tick to overflow for that many times. Did I miss
> >> > > something here? I do agree that we should output better msgs to tell
> >> > > users that the cost of a certain test is constantly smaller than a
> >> > > tick.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I think for things like vmexit counts, it's very likely that all the
> >> > samples will result in 0 ticks on many systems (fast CPU and slow arch
> >> > counter; the architecture doesn't give us any guarantees here). For
> >> > example, a system with a 2 GHz CPU and a 1 MHz counter will give you a
> >> > granularity of 2000 cycles for each counter tick, which is not that
> >> > useful for low-level tuning of KVM.
> >> >
> >> > So what I thought we were going to do was:
> >> >
> >> > main_test_function()
> >> > {
> >> > long ntimes = NTIMES;
> >> > long cost, total_cost;
> >> >
> >> > cnt1 = read_cnt();
> >> > do {
> >> > run_test();
> >> > } while(ntimes--);
> >> > cnt2 = read_cnt();
> >> >
> >> > if (verify_sane_counter(cnt1, cnt2))
> >> > return;
> >> >
> >> > total_cost = to_nanoseconds(cnt2 - cnt1);
> >> > cost = total_cost / NTIMES;
> >> > printf("testname: %l (%l)\n", cost, total_cost);
> >> > }
> >> >
> >> > And in that way amortize the potential lack of precision over all the
> >> > iterations. Did I miss some prior discussion about why that was a bad
> >> > idea?
> >>
> >> Not that I know of, but I missed the above proposal, which I completely
> >> agree with.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > It would also be possible to have two functions, one that does the above
> >> > and one that does a per-run measurement, in case the user wants to know
> >> > min/max/stddev and is running on a system with sufficient precision.
> >> > The method could be chosen via an argument.
> >>
> >> We should be able to just make NTIMES variable, setting it to one when a
> >> per-run measurement is desired, right?
> >
> > Not quite. I think you'll get different results from starting up the
> > whole test suite, doing a single measurement, and then shutting
> > everything down again, versus a single startup, and then running
> > everything for 100,000 times, measurig each time, and reporting
> > min/max/avg/mean/etc.
> >
> > We found the latter metrics useful when analyzing things like key/value
> > store workloads and benchmark results, where individual deviations can
> > really skew overall results.
> >
> >
> >> Anyway, I'm fine with having set
> >> to a reasonable value, not variable / no argument, for initial merge.
> >>
> >
> > I'd be absolutely fine with that as well, we can add the additional
> > functionality in a separate patch, or later on, depending on how much
> > time Shih-Wei has :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Christoffer
>
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