On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 09:46:52PM -0400, John Levine wrote:
> In article <20190710190507.GI3215@localhost> you write:
> >Yeah, it does seem lik the XML hate is mostly just that, but that our
> >use of XML is not really a blocker. But these are feelings we're
> >talking about -- all subjective.
>
> I think the practical difference is between a toolset that is unique
> to the IETF and one that is more widely used.
The toolchain is unique to the IETF. That the IETF has its own metadata
and typesetting needs is not. Also, just as other SDOs have adopted our
RFC2119, they might adopt our document production system if it was
flexible enough.
Before XML we had roff, so we weren't in too terrible a place, but it
wasn't very good either. Roff's is not a trivial learning curve either,
and it sure doesn't look pretty, and very few people know roff. Not
everyone will agree, but I find xml2rfc to be a step up from roff[*].
We've seen people in this thread say Word is not acceptable to them.
At this time there simple are no choices other than XML now that are
universally available and manageable to all IETF participants,
reluctantly or otherwise.
> It is utterly unclear to me whether better bridge tools would help. I
We know we can build bridges. Some of us have.
Do note that in order for co-authors to collaborate while using
different $EDITORs they would need not just conversion to XML/xml2rfc,
but from it as well. That's two bridges per-$EDITOR.
> am pretty sure that with enough effort I could write a two-way
> converter between xml2rfc and a Microsoft Word file with suitable
> stylesheets and macros. (It'd be a lot harder than what Joe has
That's essentially what I did in lyx2rfc, though if I was TeX-able I'd
probably have built a proper template and not used "macros". That would
have allowed me to not only render via xml2rfc, but also natively via
TeX tooling (which LyX's UI takes care of), with all the PostScript and
PDF typesetting prowess of the TeX ecosystem.
> done.) So you could edit stuff in Word, and revise by importing
> xml2rfc into Word and then exporting when you're done. But would
> anyone use it?
I hoped others would use LyX... I think only two or three people other
than myself did. You might be right about Word. I would not use Word
to edit I-Ds, and I would find it difficult to co-author with people who
might insist me using Word.
Nico
[*] I do edit roff on a regular basis -- man pages, basically -- and
mostly I do by copying the patterns I see, occasionally deep-diving
to pick up some unwelcome arcane roff knowledge, ready to jettison
it at the first opportunity.
