We do the best we can. MeetEcho works well enough for exceptions. Maybe someday we'll do pure-virtual meetings, sidestepping some issues while introducing others. Where in the balance of things are we now? As a thought experiment, what if there were only one physical meeting per year, mostly just so folks can shake hands, but then *scheduled* (and completely deconflicted) per WG virtual meetings throughout the year? Would there be balance in that? Just an idle thought. No need to reply. Kent > On Mar 7, 2019, at 12:01 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > You assume, of course, that, sometime after 29 March, UK > citizens are not required to go through a visa application > process involving appearing in person at a consulate in order to > visit Germany or the EU more generally. Of course, I think the > odds of that are extremely small, but I would have given almost > as poor odds to Shamir being denied permission to come to the US > (or several other visa denials or timeouts I know about). > > As several people have pointed out, things can change and change > quickly. Even if we could predict such changes, for any > country or situation requiring that visas be issued before the > traveler gets on a plane, I know of no way to prevent or predict > when some arbitrary junior consular official will have a bad day > and decide to prove that he (or she or it) is powerful enough to > come up with an excuse (if that is even needed) to deny a visa > or lose the application for someone, possibly someone important. > > > That is the one thing I would have added to Eliot's excellent > and very helpful note: Until we figure out a way to keep people > who are stupid and/or petty out of consular jobs (or government > jobs generally), some visa processing timeouts (and maybe even a > few rejections) are going to happen and happen nearly at random. > A decision to block a country as a meeting site had best be done > on the basis of patterns rather than isolated incidents, no > matter how much publicity those incidents draw or how irrational > they appear. FWIW, the Canada-Chine behavior looks like a > pattern to me. Trump's travel ban on a list of countries is > definitely not just a pattern but a matter of stated policy as > are, e.g., the rules several countries have adopted toward > Israeli passports and visa applications. This thing with > Shamir? Silly bordering on stupid, definitely. But no evidence > of a pattern on which it would be sensible to start moving > meetings around, at least yet. > > best, > john > > > --On Thursday, March 7, 2019 15:42 +0000 Christer Holmberg > <christer.holmberg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Berlin. >> >> > 伀渀 㜀⼀ ㌀⼀㈀ 㤀Ⰰ 㜀⸀㐀 Ⰰ ∀椀攀琀昀 漀渀 戀攀栀愀氀昀 漀昀 匀琀攀瀀栀愀渀 圀攀渀最攀爀∀ഀ㸀 㰀椀攀琀昀ⴀ戀漀甀渀挀攀猀䀀椀攀琀昀⸀漀爀最 漀渀 戀攀栀愀氀昀 漀昀 猀琀攀眀攀䀀猀琀攀眀攀⸀漀爀最㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ⸀⸀⸀⸀ 愀渀搀 椀渀 䌀栀椀渀愀⸀ ⠀倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 攀瘀攀渀 � > �漀爀攀 猀漀Ⰰ 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀椀渀最ഀ㸀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀椀渀最 琀漀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 䌀愀渀愀搀椀愀渀 挀椀琀椀稀攀渀猀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀⤀ഀ㸀 匀琀攀瀀栀愀渀ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 伀渀 ㌀⼀㜀⼀㤀Ⰰ 㜀㨀㌀㈀Ⰰ ∀椀攀琀昀 漀渀 戀攀栀愀氀昀 漀昀 倀愀甀氀 圀漀甀琀攀爀猀∀ഀ㸀 㰀� > �攀琀昀ⴀ戀漀甀渀挀攀猀䀀椀攀琀昀⸀漀爀最 漀渀 戀攀栀愀氀昀 漀昀 瀀愀甀氀䀀渀漀栀愀琀猀⸀挀愀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀 ഀ㸀 伀渀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㜀 䴀愀爀 ㈀ 㤀Ⰰ 䔀氀椀漀琀 䰀攀愀爀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 㸀 䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀☠ഀ㸀 㸀 ഀ㸀 > 㸀 吀栀椀猀 挀爀椀琀攀爀椀漀渀 挀愀渀 愀渀搀 栀愀猀 挀漀洀攀 椀渀琀漀 挀漀渀昀氀椀挀琀 眀椀琀栀ഀ㸀 漀琀栀攀爀 挀爀椀琀攀爀椀愀Ⰰ 猀甀挀栀 愀猀 攀愀猀攀 漀昀 琀爀愀瘀攀氀 琀漀 琀栀攀 氀漀挀愀氀攀Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀Ⰰഀ㸀 愀渀搀 攀瘀攀渀 猀愀昀攀琀礀 愀渀搀 栀攀愀氀琀栀 椀猀猀甀攀猀⸀ 䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀� > �椀猀 㸀ഀ㸀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 氀漀猀攀 愀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 洀漀瘀攀搀 洀攀攀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഀ㸀 刀椀挀栀愀爀搀 椀猀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 䌀愀渀愀搀愀 栀愀猀 爀攀昀甀猀攀搀 攀渀琀爀礀 琀漀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 愀猀ഀ㸀 眀攀氀氀⸀ 䤀渀搀攀攀搀 愀 搀攀愀� > � 挀漀氀氀攀愀最甀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 㸀 䤀䄀䈀 昀爀漀洀 䌀栀椀渀愀ഀ㸀 眀愀猀 爀攀昀甀猀攀搀 攀渀琀爀礀 愀琀 漀渀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀⸀ 䤀渀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 漀昀琀攀渀 栀愀爀搀ഀ㸀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 椀洀洀椀最爀愀渀琀猀 眀栀漀 氀攀愀瘀攀 愀 挀漀甀渀琀爀礀 琀漀 爀攀攀渀琀攀爀⸀ 吀栀 > 攀 䤀䄀匀䄀ഀ㸀 栀愀猀 琀漀 琀愀欀攀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 㸀 椀渀琀漀 愀挀挀漀甀渀琀⸀ഀ㸀 㸀 ഀ㸀 㸀 䄀猀 琀漀 挀漀洀洀甀渀椀琀礀 昀攀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀猀Ⰰ 椀昀 眀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 最漀ഀ㸀 琀漀 琀栀攀 唀⸀匀⸀ 愀琀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 眀攀� > �眀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 搀愀琀愀 漀渀 樀甀猀琀 栀漀眀 眀攀ഀ㸀 愀爀攀 愀昀昀攀挀琀攀搀⸀ 圀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 挀漀渀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 㸀ഀ㸀 昀爀漀洀 眀栀漀猀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 眀攀 挀愀渀 愀渀搀 搀漀 戀攀渀攀昀椀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 搀攀洀漀最爀愀瀀栀椀挀ഀ㸀 漀昀 攀� > �挀栀 挀漀洀洀甀渀椀琀礀 椀猀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀 琀漀ഀ㸀 欀渀漀眀 栀漀眀 洀愀渀礀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 眀攀爀攀 搀攀渀椀攀搀 愀挀挀攀猀猀 㸀 琀漀 愀ഀ㸀 挀漀甀渀琀爀礀⸀ 䤀 攀渀挀漀甀爀愀最攀 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀甀渀椀琀礀 琀漀 爀攀昀氀攀挀琀 漀渀 > 琀栀攀 渀甀洀戀攀爀猀ഀ㸀 愀猀 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ㈀ ㈀ 匀愀渀 䘀爀愀渀挀椀猀挀漀ഀ㸀 洀攀攀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 渀漀琀 琀漀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 㸀 漀琀栀攀爀 洀攀攀琀椀渀最猀 椀渀ഀ㸀 漀琀栀攀爀 挀漀甀渀琀爀椀攀猀 椀渀 戀攀琀眀� > �攀渀⸀ 䄀渀搀 礀攀猀Ⰰ 愀 氀漀琀 挀愀渀 愀渀搀 眀椀氀氀ഀ㸀 挀栀愀渀最攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 渀漀眀 愀渀搀 ㈀ ㈀⸀ ഀ㸀 䤀渀搀攀攀搀⸀ 䰀漀漀欀 愀琀 栀漀眀 猀甀搀搀攀渀氀礀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 琀栀椀猀 䌀愀渀愀搀愀 ⴀഀ㸀 䌀栀椀渀愀 椀猀猀甀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 � > �洀椀最栀琀 猀琀爀漀渀最氀礀 愀昀昀攀挀琀 漀甀爀 洀攀攀琀椀渀最猀ഀ㸀 猀挀栀攀搀甀氀攀搀 椀渀 䌀愀渀愀搀愀⸀ ഀ㸀 倀愀甀氀ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ഀ㸀 ഀഀഀഀ >
