On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 05:35, Dan York <york@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Please refer to the email which was sent to the IETF mailing list on 19 July. Why did the mistake happen again?
Because I forgot to find a scribe. I?m very sorry about this. (I even added an item to my task manager to remind myself to do this after the last plenary, but it failed to trigger a notification. I already have one correctly set to fire an alarm before the IETF 104 plenary.)
There were hundreds of people in the room that didn?t notice either, so I think we should take this as a collective failure.DY> Agreed. It's not all on you, Alissa. When Alice went to the mic, I realized that for the first time in many IETF meetings I was *not* in the plenary Jabber room.. At every other IETF meeting I've attended in recent years, I've joined that chat room just to monitor what was going on and be available if remote attendees had questions. Last night I didn't. Had I done so I could have channeled John to the mic (even without formally being the official "scribe"). I'm very glad Alice was there to do so, but others of us could have been there as well.Btw: I have experienced that finding working jabber clients for my OS is becoming harder and harder. Is this an indication of jabber in general failing? And if so what are we going to do about it?DY> I agree with Ole that this is an increasing challenge. For instance, in the latest "Mojave" release of Mac OS, Apple unfortunately just removed Jabber/XMPP support from its Messages app (see https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8553254 ). The Adium app that many of us on Macs have used hasn't had an update in a couple of years (and the http://adium.im website has pages that are broken, so it's not clear how active the project is). A few of the other clients have their own challenges.
https://swift.im/ works fine on a Mac, and seems good enough for me (though I only use a Mac at all under duress). Swift is fully supported, if you want, by Isode (who I used to work for, but didn't work at all on Swift beyond the logo).
There are also a bunch of really quite solid web clients - XMPP over a websocket works as well as it does over TCP.
Jabber (or XMPP) isn't failing, but it is being driven from the mainstream by the closed silos, so generic clients are comparatively rare. Instead, there are either systems that gateway through (Skype for Business does, I think - Lync certainly did), or else there are various bespoke clients for specific use-cases. Finally, various public services - and these are fairly rare, sadly - include a webclient tied to their service. This isn't particularly unusual in our world - you similarly cannot find a decent desktop email client anymore, since everyone uses webmail.
DY> I'm not sure exactly what that means. But perhaps some guidance from those involved with the XMPP side of the IETF about suggestions for clients could be helpful.Dan
