On 8 Nov 2018, at 11:41, Randy Bush wrote: >> Perhaps the IETF needs to admit defeat here... > > my memory is that xmpp was originaly brought into the ietf to be rubber stamped. Being Area Director of the time, my memory is the following: Step 1: - Work on coming up with a chat protocol - Outcome: four proposals, most interesting based on BEEP - People start using Jabber Step 2: - No agreement, allow all four to become RFCs (I think all four ended up being RFCs, I might be wrong) - Discussion with Jabber, that did not want change control in IETF Step 3: - Jabber people came to IETF and said we can have a good constructive discussion - Jabber discussed Step 4: - XMPP be finished So, "rubber stamped" was a bit to brutal expression maybe ;-) Jabber/XMPP was treated and was managed the same / similar way as all protocols that at first are dealt with outside of IETF and then brought to the IETF community. A quite successful example I must say. Although the understanding of how IETF works to start with was, also as always, a bit confusing. Patrik
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