On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:12 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
While it is true that NA makes up a the biggest group overall, I think that it is worth noting that when we meet in Asia we have about 40% participation from Asia, and when we meet in Europe we have about 40% from Europe.
Hi Lou,
The data has evolved over time, so it's a bit hard to interpret, but I don't
think this is necessarily the best characterization of the situation. As you
said earlier, there have been 6 Asian meetings in the period IETF 72-IETF 102,
with steadily falling Asian attendance fractions:
3 Hiroshima 0.4995997
6 Beijing 0.4805389
9 Taipei 0.4005709
21 Yokohama 0.3866846
24 Seoul 0.3286418
27 Singapore 0.2966625
6 Beijing 0.4805389
9 Taipei 0.4005709
21 Yokohama 0.3866846
24 Seoul 0.3286418
27 Singapore 0.2966625
In the same period, we have had 10 European meetings, with more or less flat
European attendance:
City EU.Frac
2 Stockholm 0.3577236
5 Maastricht 0..3561013
7 Prague 0.3647416
10 Paris 0.3747547
14 Berlin 0.3842271
16 London 0.3885350
20 Prague 0.3627010
23 Berlin 0.3748686
26 Prague 0.3491124
28 London 0.3787654
2 Stockholm 0.3577236
5 Maastricht 0..3561013
7 Prague 0.3647416
10 Paris 0.3747547
14 Berlin 0.3842271
16 London 0.3885350
20 Prague 0.3627010
23 Berlin 0.3748686
26 Prague 0.3491124
28 London 0.3787654
In case people are curious, here's the data for all meetings and all geographies:
Meeting.Number City Cont Asia.Frac EU.Frac NA.Frac
1 74 San Francisco NA 0.1863261 0.2223892 0.5514651
2 75 Stockholm EU 0.2357724 0.3577236 0.3617886
3 76 Hiroshima AS 0.4995997 0.1905524 0.2818255
4 77 Anaheim NA 0.2251852 0.1977778 0.5392593
5 78 Maastricht EU 0.2709133 0.3561013 0.3376823
6 79 Beijing AS 0.4805389 0.1826347 0.2979042
7 80 Prague EU 0.2180851 0.3647416 0.3837386
8 81 Quebec City NA 0.2419614 0.2114148 0.5072347
9 82 Taipei AS 0.4005709 0.2007612 0.3720266
10 83 Paris EU 0.2060170 0.3747547 0.3754088
11 84 Vancouver NA 0.2330383 0.2028024 0.5044248
12 85 Atlanta NA 0.2087343 0.1917098 0.5396003
13 86 Orlando NA 0.1937858 0.2035977 0.5568275
14 87 Berlin EU 0.1873817 0.3842271 0.3564669
15 88 Vancouver NA 0.1782832 0.2017608 0.5436537
16 89 London EU 0.1649682 0.3885350 0.3936306
17 90 Toronto NA 0.1810402 0.2073733 0.5227123
18 91 Hawaii NA 0.2098854 0.2098854 0.5150430
19 92 Dallas NA 0.1787440 0.1994479 0.5383023
20 93 Prague EU 0.1729904 0.3627010 0.4032154
21 94 Yokohama AS 0.3866846 0.1997310 0.3443174
22 95 Buenos Aires SA 0.2483553 0.1973684 0.3563596
23 96 Berlin EU 0.1966351 0.3748686 0.3449001
24 97 Seoul AS 0.3286418 0.2174525 0.3631246
25 98 Chicago NA 0.1993846 0.2123077 0.5027692
26 99 Prague EU 0.1791286 0.3491124 0.3717052
27 100 Singapore AS 0.2966625 0.2626700 0.3751545
28 101 London EU 0.1748148 0.3787654 0.3570370
1 74 San Francisco NA 0.1863261 0.2223892 0.5514651
2 75 Stockholm EU 0.2357724 0.3577236 0.3617886
3 76 Hiroshima AS 0.4995997 0.1905524 0.2818255
4 77 Anaheim NA 0.2251852 0.1977778 0.5392593
5 78 Maastricht EU 0.2709133 0.3561013 0.3376823
6 79 Beijing AS 0.4805389 0.1826347 0.2979042
7 80 Prague EU 0.2180851 0.3647416 0.3837386
8 81 Quebec City NA 0.2419614 0.2114148 0.5072347
9 82 Taipei AS 0.4005709 0.2007612 0.3720266
10 83 Paris EU 0.2060170 0.3747547 0.3754088
11 84 Vancouver NA 0.2330383 0.2028024 0.5044248
12 85 Atlanta NA 0.2087343 0.1917098 0.5396003
13 86 Orlando NA 0.1937858 0.2035977 0.5568275
14 87 Berlin EU 0.1873817 0.3842271 0.3564669
15 88 Vancouver NA 0.1782832 0.2017608 0.5436537
16 89 London EU 0.1649682 0.3885350 0.3936306
17 90 Toronto NA 0.1810402 0.2073733 0.5227123
18 91 Hawaii NA 0.2098854 0.2098854 0.5150430
19 92 Dallas NA 0.1787440 0.1994479 0.5383023
20 93 Prague EU 0.1729904 0.3627010 0.4032154
21 94 Yokohama AS 0.3866846 0.1997310 0.3443174
22 95 Buenos Aires SA 0.2483553 0.1973684 0.3563596
23 96 Berlin EU 0.1966351 0.3748686 0.3449001
24 97 Seoul AS 0.3286418 0.2174525 0.3631246
25 98 Chicago NA 0.1993846 0.2123077 0.5027692
26 99 Prague EU 0.1791286 0.3491124 0.3717052
27 100 Singapore AS 0.2966625 0.2626700 0.3751545
28 101 London EU 0.1748148 0.3787654 0.3570370
-Ekr
Lou
On April 21, 2018 11:57:50 AM Cullen Jennings <fluffy@xxxxxx> wrote:
When we went to a 1-1-1 policy, we agreed the locations should roughly match participants location to be fair. The argument was made that if we had more meetings outside north america, the participation would come to match approximately 1/3 , 1/3 , 1/3. That has clearly not happened so I think we need set the rotation of where we do meeting to something we agree is fair to our participants.I do not support the 1-1-1 policy as it is based on a false premise that this mirrors our participation.On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@xxxxxxxx> wrote:Andrew,
Thanks for raising this.
While the stated rationale in S 2. is to spread travel pain around,
I don't really think this gets us to 1-1-1-*.
First, if you look at historical demographics, over the past 12 IETFs,
we have 23% Asia, 26% Europe, and 42% NA). Put another way, the last
time we had > 1/3 Asian attendance was IETF 94 in Yokohama, and the
last time we had less than 1/3 NA attendance was IETF 79 in Beijing.
So, a policy that was designed to match per-continent attendance would
be more like 2-1-1-*.
Second, continent is not a very good proxy for travel pain, both
because Asia is so large (for instance, the shortest Tokyo to
Singapore route is 7:25 out and 7:10 back (on JAL) and the shortest
Tokyo - Honolulu route (ANA) is 7:20/8:10, so not really much
different at all) and because flight connections are such a big
contributor ( for instance, SFO-BKK is almost 20 hours, whereas
SFO-NRT is 11).
Bottom line, if this is supposed to be real requirements rather
than just aspirations, I think it needs a rethink.
-Ekr______________________________On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Dear IESG,
On Thu, Apr 05, 2018 at 01:12:40PM -0700, The IESG wrote:
>
> The IESG has received a request from the Meeting Venue WG (mtgvenue) to
> consider the following document: - 'High level guidance for the meeting
> policy of the IETF'
> <draft-ietf-mtgvenue-meeting-policy-04.txt> as Best Current Practice In a recent discussion, the IAOC came to realise that the documents
draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process and
draft-ietf-mtgvenue-meeting-policy may be in some tension. One of
them requires the IASA to balance meeting venues over time, and the
other has requirements that a meeting must meet.
One possible difficulty that arises from the combination is if one
region turns out to be vastly more expensive than others. In that
case, some criteria for each venue may not be met in one region. The
result might also be financially ruinous for the IETF in general.
The current IAOC interprets the drafts such that any of the criteria
except those in section 3.1 of
draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process may be traded against
any other, over several years if need be, in order to meet the
geographic distribution policy described in
draft-ietf-mtgvenue-meeting-policy. Assuming the documents are
published as they are currently written, we will use that
interpretation as governing IASA implementation decisions. It is
worth noting that, among the criteria that could be traded are those
of affordability. If that is not the interpretation of the IETF
community, then some clarification is needed to the text.
Best regards,
Andrew Sullivan
for the IAOC
--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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