--On Sunday, January 14, 2018 10:05 +1300 Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 14/01/2018 08:50, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> May I ask what *browser* version you are using? While I agree >> that the IETF Web site ought to work for people with old >> computers, but generally, one needs to be using a reasonably >> modern browser or you are going to have problems a lot bigger >> than the IETF Web site not rendering. FWIW, I just tested the >> site with modern Firefox, Chrome, and Safari, and it renders >> fine > It does. But people with simpler tastes might prefer something > like the attachment as a start page. No CSS. YMMV. And, independent of other issues, that example shows why designing this sort of thing is not a simple issue. I think that, for the audience we have historically thought was most important (active IETF participants trying find information or do work) and quibbles aside, the content is about right. However, even on a large screen, I can't read the screen without glasses or magnification. If I resort to magnification. I end up either with horizontal scrolling or overlap onto a second monitor, depending on how I'm set up, and either introduces the sort of distraction that I think we agree such a page should avoid. The layout doesn't get on well with with a screen reader either. To me, the example illustrates that there is a role for some careful, and user- and usage-sensitive graphic design even for a page of links optimized to be a quick-access index. That doesn't imply a need for picture from the meetings of other organizations, animation, more than four colors, or decorative framing. It doesn't imply CSS or JavaScript either. But I think good design is still useful and important. On the other hand, I don't think the new pages demonstrate good graphic design either, even for their rather different intended audience, whether that design reflects common current practice or not. More on that in a separate note john