FWIW, ietf@xxxxxxxx is probably a good place to discuss the general topic of Updates: and its semantics. I realise that there’s a distinction between what the RFC format and IETF stream semantics are. But frankly, I can’t get excited about that, and in either case… this is a topic that the community needs to discuss if we are going to define better semantics. My personal opinion is roughly where Brian’s comments were. I’ll add that there’s plenty of variation of thought for the semantics of Updates, both in terms of what different people think and what has been done over time for different RFCs. The semantics have been vague, and even if we institute a new agreed policy, it doesn't change past RFCs. Going forward, in general, I’m in favour of explaining, explicitly, in the RFC what it means. Why are we updating, obsoleting or extending something previously defined? What are the changes? What are the impacts if you do this or don’t do this? Jari
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