Re: My two cents on draft-leiba-rfc2119-update

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Actually there was plenty of back and forth on normative language when I was on the IESG, and a lot of it had to do with the issues that Barry is addressing in this document, particularly the uppercase/lowercase stuff.   And there was a lot of confusion on the part of draft authors, because the IESG wasn't being particularly consistent about it.   (E.g., I really hate it when people use tortured english to avoid saying lower-case should or lower-case must, and a few other ADs at the time shared this view, but not everyone did.)

A lot of the time wasted is wasted when people get it wrong and there's a big discussion.   If you tend to get it right, you wouldn't have seen this.


On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 8/10/16 9:33 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> Repeat discussions waste time.

Not much, I don't think.  I certainly cannot think of
an instance where a document has been anything other than
trivially delayed by a discussion about normative language.
And of course there are serious discussions about whether
something should be mandatory or recommended, and this
document really doesn't help those at all.

I suppose my broader point is that less-than-useful process
documents waste time, as well, and they clog up the
document stream.  I'm afraid I tend to view documents like
this as contributing to our gradual but steady metamorphosis
into a conventional, process-bound standards body.

> Our review process is not very
> robust--a lot of things slip through the cracks.

Indeed they do, but typically not 2119 mistakes.  I have
seen an awful lot of secdir and opsdir reviews go through
that don't have any useful security or operational review
but which have caught tons of nits.

Melinda




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