I had characterized the expedition to BA as an example of getting on the bus to Abilene. Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Crocker > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 9:13 AM > To: Melinda Shore; Eliot Lear; ietf@xxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request > for input > > On 5/22/2016 2:04 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: > > Allow me to suggest that avoiding disadvantaging people who do not > > actually participate might be somewhat lower priority than avoiding > > disadvantaging those who do. > > +10 > > The model which asserts that choosing meeting venues is a way to recruit participants has > no objective basis -- and that's after 30 years of opportunity to demonstrate otherwise. It > frankly serves to work against the basic goal of having most work done on mailing lists, by > selling a cultural view that meetings are primary. > > Anyone who wants to participate in the IETF already can. All they need is an Internet > connection. It doesn't even have to be a good one, since IETF list mail only consumes > extremely low bandwidth and is an asynchronous form of use. > > F2F meetings permit /added/ efficiency for those who are /already/ participating. > > Moving the venue is /not/ for permitting attendance by those who otherwise can't attend, > but (is supposed to be) to share the pain among those who do attend. > > The outreach goal cited for some venue choices is well-intentioned but unfortunately > misguided and probably counter-productive to the IETF's main work. > > > > On 5/23/2016 7:01 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: > > I only wish that was true. While we try to go back to venues that have > > worked well, they are often not available on the dates when we want to > > meet. > > While that is sometimes the case, of course, it is not the primary reason we keep seeking > new venues (independent of the occasional social outreach experiment.) > > The primary reason we vary the cities so much is to try to get sponsors and hosts. > > > d/ > -- > > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net