It seems that -06 has more in the way of safeguards and due process than I had thought, but these aren't very clear, therefore I propose to clarify them. OLD TEXT: (section 4, last para) [...]. Otherwise, with agreement to proceed from the Subject (or the Reporter if there is no individual Subject), the Ombudsteam may initiate detailed investigation of the matter, and may subsequently impose a remedy as described in Section 5. I'd like to read this as "may impose a remedy ... after initiating a detailed investigation ...". Or even better: "... after completing ...". This ensures that the facts of the event must have been ascertained to some degree before imposing remedies other than mediation, at least when they can be. A report alone should generally be insufficient to apply remedies beyond mediation. On the other hand, pehaps mediation might not require completing an investigation -- mediation might even help establish the facts. But what if mediation fails? (see also further below) NEW TEXT: [...]. Otherwise, with agreement to proceed from the Subject (or the Reporter if there is no individual Subject), the Ombudsteam may initiate detailed investigation of the matter. Subsequent to completion of the detailed investigation, the Ombudsteam may impose a remedy as described in Section 5. OLD TEXT: (section 4.1, last para on page 7) When conducting a detailed investigation of the circumstances regarding the complaint of harassment, the Ombudsteam may contact the Respondent and request a meeting in person or by a voice call. NEW TEXT: When conducting a detailed investigation of the circumstances regarding the complaint of harassment, the Ombudsteam may contact the Respondent and request a meeting in person or by a voice call. The Ombudsteam shall have contacted the Respondent and either discussed the matter, or ascertained the Respondent's unwillingness to cooperate, prior to deciding to impose a remedy as described in Section 5. This ensures that Respondents have a chance to participate in the process, explain themselves, request mediation, demonstrate understanding and willingness to avoid repetition of the conduct in question. This does not mean that a cooperating Respondent is guaranteed to avoid remedies! Mediation might fail, the Ombudsteam might conclude that the Respondent is insincere, repeated offenses might (should) make mediation unsatisfactory (see earlier point)... This allows the Ombudsteam to minimize further harm that uncooperative Respondents might cause. I would also allow for immediate but temporary removal pending completion of the investigation if the alleged conduct is so severe that completion of the process with the Respondent still participating in IETF functions is untenable. I'm not sure how to draft such text. OLD TEXT: (section 5, first para) After examining the circumstances regarding the complaint of harassment the Ombudsteam should prepare a brief summary of the incident and their conclusions and discuss this with all parties. [...] If we have a requirement that the Ombudsteam have contacted Respondent then this is fine, otherwise this could be the first contact with Respondent and then the contact would then be only for the purpose of conveying the Ombudsteam's conclusion. See points above. NEW TEXT: Same as the old if new text proposed for sections 4 and 4.1 is accepted. OLD TEXT: (section 5, fourth para) [...]. With the agreement of both parties, the Ombudsteam can also help to mediate a conversation between the Respondent and the Subject (or the Reporter if there is no individual Subject) in order to address the issue. What happens if mediation fails? NEW TEXT: [...]. With the agreement of both parties, the Ombudsteam can also help to mediate a conversation between the Respondent and the Subject (or the Reporter if there is no individual Subject) in order to address the issue. If mediation fails then the Ombudsteam can decide to apply other remedies listed here. I should note that I'm fairly happy with section 4.1, that it addresses a lot of my earlier concerns (and that I hadn't read this one carefully enough before), except for the confidentiality concerns. As to confidentiality, I suppose that there is no need to state obvious limits as to confidentiality (e.g., legal discovery), but I think it doesn't hurt to describe some of these limits. I'm concerned as to how an appeal to the IESG can result in the IESG determining whether the Ombudsteam performed its due diligence without inquiring into how the investigation was conducted, and then possibly leaking details meant to be held in confidence. I understand and agree with the desire to preserve confidentiality but I see it as -at the limit- being fundamentally in tension with the goal of ensuring proper conduct by the Ombudsteam. I would consider appeals being heard by a subset of the IESG if that would help alleviate concerns as to keeping details confidential. Before I offer text, I'd like to hear what others think about this. This process needn't be entirely like a trial in criminal law courts; we can make punitive decisions with much less in the way of due process than criminal courts. But some degree of due process (if well short of what one would expect in a criminal case) is highly desirable here, both for its own sake (to protect the process against abuses, intentional or otherwise, of the process) and as way to reduce the IETF's liability in potential civil slander/libel lawsuits. I am somewhat concerned that because the IETF has participants from many cultures, misunderstandings will occur that might not be harassment when taken in context (via mediation). I'm much less concerned about cultural clashes where some participants are accustomed to harassment simply being permissible (or even expected) in their cultures: though such cases _might_ be handled via mediation once for any Respondent, they should always result in either non-repetition or in removal subsequent to repetition. In cases where Respondents really should have known better and/or where mediation simply can't put things back to normal (because Respondent's conduct was extreme), mediation need not be tried first, only investigation. We'll be depending on the Ombudsteam to make proper determinations of what conduct is extreme enough to make mediation unworkable; we should give them plenty of guidance. E.g., inappropriate comments might be appropriate for mediation, but offers or demands to exchange sexual favors should not be, and abuse of authority never should be appropriate for mediation. "Managers", including WG and BoF chairs, should be trained once emplaced. Perhaps the Sunday tutorial sessions should now include training about harassment? This might be helpful for newcomers. Finally, I should explain that I don't understand how people can bring themselves to overtly harass someone (sexually or otherwise), but I do understand that it happens nonetheless and that we have to deal with it when it does. None of the above is intended to imply otherwise nor to frustrate the process by which we address harassment. Nico --