Re: Last Call: RFC 6346 successful: moving to Proposed Standard

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In message <9C0A9641-1FDC-4456-95DC-C12536CDF22C@xxxxxxxxx>, =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=9
4=93Dan_Wing?= writes:
> On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:00 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > In message <74DF5B53-055C-4235-A8FA-E8B38E007F45@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Ted
> Lemon writes
> > :
> >> On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:02 PM, George Michaelson <ggm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>> Hang on.. the deployment of DNSSEC backed applications is a bit iffy
> if
> >> we depend on deployment of DNS based tricks to cover for V4/V6
> >> interoperation surely?
> >>
> >> DNS64 can be done by the client, in which case DNSSEC validation can be
> >> performed _before_ translating the IPv4 address from the A record into
> an
> >> IPv6 address in the NAT64 prefix.
> >
> > Which requires every DNSSEC aware client to also be DNS64 aware.
> > I though we were trying to remove NAT kludges requires that they
> > be kept forever.
>
> The BEHAVE working group was unable to find any other approach to get
> DNSSEC and NAT64 to work together.  If you have a proposal, please share.

Which should have been a reason to reject DNS64 and NAT64 as anything
other than a interim measure.

> > RFC 6147 also get DNSSEC signalling completely wrong.  There is NO
> > combination of bits that indicates validation will / will not occur.
>
> Yes, you reported that as an errata on 2012-05-30.  It was rejected on
> basis of "Changes that are clearly modifications to the intended
> consensus, or
> involve large textual changes, should be Rejected.",
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6147.

Which doesn't mean I am wrong or that RFC 6147 is correct. Just
that you want to put your fingers in your ears and go "na na na I
can't hear you".

If something is wrong it should be acknowledged regardless of the
size of the error.  This is a error in fact.  This is not a matter
of opinion.

A client can be validating with both CD=0 and CD=1 queries.

In fact it is better for a recursive validating client to use CD=0
queries than CD=1 queries in the presence of a attack as the recursive
server then filters out the forged responses it is getting rather
than passing them through to the validating stub client.  It only
falls back to CD=1 on SERVFAIL in case that SERVFAIL was a result
of a bad trust anchor or a bad clock in the resursive server.

For completeness one can also start with CD=1 and retry with CD=0
on validation failure.  This should cause the recursive server to
issue new queries and validate them before passing them onto the
client.

There is no perfect CD state for a recursive validating client to
send and I've state as much many times.

Always send CD=1 is wrong.  When you have a daisy chain of servers
the ultimate client looses control of when validation is or isn't
done in the intermeditate servers.  Unfortunately dnsext had a chair
that refused to reopen discussion on this issue.  Yes, consenus
gets things wrong.

The CD state of a outbound query should match the state of the
inbound query that triggered it.

All recursive servers need to validate.

A client can on validate if it sets DO=1.  DO=1 does not mean that
a client will be validating.

> > Additionally the discover mechanism for the DNS64 parameters is to
> > say the least baroque.  It would have been much simpler to add a
> > EDNS option so the nameserver could actually return them or the
> > addresses it would have otherwise returned if DO=1 is set.  These
> > could be cached along with the NODATA response by intermediate
> > nameservers.
>
> That does appear a nice approach for a DNS64-aware client to learn the
> NAT64 prefix.
>
> -d
>

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@xxxxxxx





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