I find myself in agreement with John and Dave on this. I am not at all convinced by the diversity of meeting places == diversity of long term participation argument, and I share the view that we should avoid anything that remotely resembles a holiday location. For me Minneapolis or an equivalent would work every time. People would only go there to work on IETF stuff, travel arrangements and budget would be a template, we would know what to find when we got there, we would not need to qualify the venue, and it would be subject to incremental improvement through tuning. - Stewart