On 7/20/2014 2:54 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: > I have delusions that those two should not differ significantly and that > the WG can produce at least enough of an outline of what ought to be > done in short finite time that the IETF's MTA folks will be able to make > changes. That is, after all, the way our process is *supposed* to work. > I understand the vastness of my delusions, but I am motivated to get > phase 1 of the charter completed quickly. In the late 80s, which was the beginning of the Internet's commercial market, my group produced Internet protocol stacks. Europe was 25% of our revenues, in spite of being the hotbed of OSI -- "OSI created the market; the Internet satisfied it." (sm) One of my larger customers was the manager of the IT department at ISO... I asked whether he got hassled about that and with no accompanying smile he said that he had a job to do and they didn't get to tell him how to do it. The IETF ops folks have an immediate requirement. They should not be forced to wait on a yet-unformed working group and unknown delays after it is formed, before dealing with that problem. Michael described immediate and consequential problems. They need immediate and useful actions. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net