On Jun 24, 2014, at 11:36 PM, Randy Bush <randy@xxxxxxx> wrote: > some of us here actually operate networks, make cpe Sigh, and now I am prolonging the conversation. Sorry. But my point was not that we have nothing to do about it. Just that we aren't going to have a discussion where we all agree about what the outcome will be, because no matter what we do or try to do, it's not really in our hands. Doesn't mean we can't (or shouldn't) try!