Suppose there is a problem here that needs solving, i.e., that this document is not just part of some external agenda about which the IETF has not been informed (given the normative reference to RFC 2860, I can imagine it might be). Then I suggest that... There are real requirements that we need to have people follow to ensure interoperability. It is possible that some of those requirements, like the requirement to maintain, really are generic although I argued in my prior note that the maintenance one would likely reduce the number of implementations, especially reference implementations, resulting in some harm and little if any gains. Others, including whatever is said in Applicability Statements and BCPs that are based on consensus of actual experience and practice, are much more document-specific. If such requirements apply to a given technical specification, then an offspring of this document should be created, given normative status as a BCP or, preferably, as a generic Applicability Statement, and then a normative reference to it should be incorporated into the RFC boilerplate or 2119-like language for technical specifications and other relevant documents. That would solve the problem of how implementers and others are supposed to find this sort of statement. For particular specifications, this document indirectly opens up some longstanding (and interrelated) problems, e.g.,: (i) When a standard (with or without an STD number) consists of multiple technical specifications, maybe an applicability statement or two (which may precede some of the technical specs), and maybe one or more BCPs, what actually is the standard? What extensions are considered mandatory, which ones optional, and, since we aren't consistent about deprecating old cruft, which ones have quietly become Not Recommended. [1] (ii) What, actually, is a conformance clause in our world? RFC 2119 says that both SHOULD and MUST are used to describe things that are important for interoperability. The present document adds a lot of generic requirements that are claimed to be important for interoperability. Other comments have identified the importance to some protocols of a doctrine of "fail early" to improve robustness against, e.g., careless implementations even if the relevant provisions are not strictly needed for interoperability. Some of the normative language in RFCs 1122 and 1123 is consistent with that model, 2119's definitions probably are not. And this draft essentially makes all BCPs that have impact on a particular technical spec mandatory to implement/support. My sense is that many BCPs, including some that are about operations rather than implementation, have been approved with no community intent that they be considered mandatory and that, had that been the intent, the consensus (or at least the level of scrutiny) would have been much different. If we intend to make support of a BCP associated with a given technical spec mandatory, it should, IMO, be done on a case-by-case rough consensus basis, not as a side effect of a document that appears to promote all relevant BCPs to mandatory status [2]. The IETF has had many discussions about how to solve the above problems, several of which would also provide authoritative forward reference from earlier specs to later changes, advice, and description. One is represented exactly by RFC 1122 and 1123: publication of Applicability Statements that draw the pieces of a conceptual standard together and bind it to implementation and operational advice. A second (extended a bit from the last discussion I remember) would have us use STD numbers more broadly and aggressively, assigning them when (or before) Proposed Standards are approved and using them to group supplemental documents, including appropriate BCPs and Informational implementation reports, as well as the technical specs themselves. [3] THe third is to create new documents that actually describe what is in a standard and what the associated implementation and operational advice or norms are as appropriate. Such a document could also serve as a sort of AS because it could identify the difference between mandatory, recommended, and optional specification components as thinking about those evolved [4]. The IESG has declined to consider any of those ideas, at last in part because all of them would involve additional work. But I think that the problems that presumably led to the current draft make that work important enough that we should find the resources to do something along those lines. If the problems are not important enough to justify the effort to do things at least reasonably well, then I suggest that they aren't important enough to justify publishing a generic document that is unlikely to be seen by a large fraction of its most important audience and that is likely to have bad side-effects. best, john [1] I note in passing that the new IESG practice of documenting decisions to move a technical specification to Historic may require that the sort of document search the present (-02) draft implies needs to extend, not just to the BCP Index, but to the RFC Index/Database and the whole history of IESG actions on Historic and, in many cases, updated or obsoleted, documents. [2] This also raises interesting questions when a document is proposed as a BCP whose associated technical specifications are not IETF-stream documents that are appropriate for normative references and over which IETF has change control. [3] See draft-klensin-std-numbers and draft-otis-newtrk-rfc-set for very different takes on this. [4] This idea was developed by a WG in draft-ietf-newtrk-repurposing-isd although a contemporary version of the ideas would undoubtedly be different.