On Mar 9, 2014, at 4:15 AM, Klaas Wierenga (kwiereng) <kwiereng@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> It works less well in groups, where the >> disadvantaged participant disrupts and holds back discussion. > > So in practice those participants usually show restraint and let you native speaking alpha males fight it out at the mike.... Not sure that that improves the quality of the IETF process..... It has not been my experience that there is a strong correlation between native speaking ability and disruptiveness at the mic, but it definitely has been my experience that if people are patient with less-than-perfect english, the IETF participants who speak it can meaningfully contribute. And it is also my experience that if native speakers are not patient about this, they effectively prevent useful contributions from non-native speakers. This is a bad outcome, and the attitude expressed in the text you quoted above contributes to that sort of outcome. So thank you for arguing back.