AB The people who have spent decades working in CCSDS, who developed and standardised the SCPS stack based on TCP/IP, who developed and standardised CFDP (which runs over TCP/IP), and who are currently standardising the bundle protocol as the latest effort to get space to adopt networking, would, of course, strongly disagree with your statement that there are still no standards for space. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCSDS http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/714x0b2.pdf http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/727x0b2s.pdf http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/rids/Lists/CCSDS%207342R2/Attachments/734x2r2.pdf But what do they know? The ETSI group who standardised satellite communication and carriage of IP traffic with DVB-S2 (and extensions) and DVB-RCS , would, of course, strongly disagree with your statement that there are still no standards for space. http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/satellite/ But what do they know? Again, I'm backing my statements with references, so that they are not merely unsupported assertions. (And why is UDP inefficient?) Lloyd Wood http://about.me/lloydwood ________________________________________ From: Abdussalam Baryun [abdussalambaryun@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 27 December 2013 22:31 To: Wood L Dr (Electronic Eng) Cc: mcr+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxx; ietf@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Chang'E 3 I was discussing/commenting on the subject as the thread did about using space internet protocols on satellites, still no standards for space. AB On Friday, December 27, 2013, wrote: AB The Moon is arguably a satellite of Earth, but the distances are different from LEO and GEO. That affects TCP performance. TCP was designed with geostationary satellite hops in mind - see eg RFC829. I use TCP across geostationary satellites daily. I back up my statements with experience and references. What do you back yours with? Why is UDP inefficient? Lloyd Wood http://about.me/lloydwood ________________________________________ From: Abdussalam Baryun [abdussalambaryun@xxxxxxxxx<javascript:;>] Sent: 27 December 2013 06:01 To: Wood L Dr (Electronic Eng) Cc: mcr+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxx<javascript:;>; ietf@xxxxxxxx<javascript:;> Subject: Re: Chang'E 3 So if TCP has problems then MPTCP has problems then they may not be preferred for that satellite networking. For LEO SATNETs also there are problems for using TCP. The UDP is a good solution in general but not efficient, but always I think the SATNETs may need some special internet transport protocols because they are having more dynamics in the net's lower layers. AB AFAIK vanilla ftp/TCP has (only?) been used on CHIPsat from LEO, but that did not have much data to transfer. We designed http://saratoga.sf.net with the idea of a continuous UDP stream of data from Pluto in mind... Lloyd Wood http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/ ________________________________________ From: ietf [ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx<javascript:;><javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Abdussalam Baryun [abdussalambaryun@xxxxxxxxx<javascript:;><javascript:;>] Sent: 26 December 2013 16:40 To: Michael Richardson Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx<javascript:;><javascript:;> Subject: Chang'E 3 Transport protocol for satellites depend on the applications, the network dynamics, links and transmission channels. IMO the use of MPTCP for Back2Earth may not be the best option making the communication complex, not sure why did you hope to use it with this project. AB