On 12/2/13 6:28 AM, Jari Arkko wrote:
Community decides: I think it is important that the WG and the IETF community decides what to do in this case. The WG is in a deadlock, and they should be able to decide - by consensus - if they want to attempt resolving this in a particular way. Including alternate decision mechanisms. Of course, we all may have opinions about how that resolution should happen. I'm personally in the "coin toss" camp (but see further below). And I'm reluctant for us in the management to attempt to override the decision in any way. Lets learn what the community wants to do. If you do not like the proposal on the table, make your opinion known or propose an alternative. Also, I've heard a couple of arguments saying that we should be worried about appeals on this matter. I'd say we should just try to the right thing.
Jari, I think we should all be clear that "community decides" is not carte blanche. For example, a WG can't simply decide on its own that it will no longer take decisions on the mailing list, but that all decisions will be taken face-to-face and simply announced on the mailing list. That would be directly against a documented process on which we have IETF consensus, and it would take a conscious change of that process by the entire community to do that. If such a process were being suggested, I think the IESG would have an obligation to step in.
In this case, the waters are much murkier (there's nothing that specifically says we can't vote), so I think it's reasonable to let the community take a stab at how it wants proceed. If the WG can come up with a process that involves sticking hands up in the air or paper ballots or whatever that still protects (to quote a certain document) "the rights of all parties in a fair and open Internet Standards Process", then we're doing "the right thing". But they do have to come up with that fair and open process. I for one am willing to wait and see if the WG and the larger IETF community can come to consensus on how to do that.
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