On 10/10/13 9:49 AM, manning bill wrote: > the "leaders" are there to inform and moderate the discussion and > where possible, indicate that consensus has been reached (or not). > when "leaders" speak out on behalf of organization -particularly- > this organization and they are _NOT_ relaying the consensus of the > group at large, they have exceeded their remit. I really think we need to stop behaving as if the IETF is a small group of people who know each other well. Consensus decision-making does not scale well with the number of participants, and if we're going to require consensus on every leadership decision we're not going to get anything done. Now, being frozen and inactive may be preferable to having Jari and Russ go off and make a cooperative public statement about internet governance, but it seems to me that as long as we have recall and appeals processes we have incentives for IETF and IAB chairs, and IESG and IAB members, not to go off and do controversial things unilaterally, as well as a remedy if they do. Melinda