>> The most valuable part of IETF meeting is and has always been the hall >> conversations and side meetings > > I think *side meetings* are killing IETF, I call it *hidden meetings*, there > is no input for IETF when we have side meetings. The input to IETF in > through meeting sessions and discussion lists. I have no argument with your last sentence; it's absolutely correct. But I think you misunderstand the point Donald is making about things such as small hallway conversations. Example: A few people get together in a corner and one says, "About that point I made on the list that you brushed off... here's what I'm talking about:", and five or ten minutes of discussion ensues. At the end, either the guy with the point now understands why he's wrong (or why his point isn't practical), or the document editor says, "OK, I get your point now. Let me work up some proposed text and post it to the list." Example: A few people get together during a session time they have free, and they bash out some text to resolve an issue that came up. They come to the working group meeting session with an explanation of their conversation and the proposed text, and it's discussed in the meeting session (and posted to the list afterward). Example: Someone has an idea for a new document or other new work, so he gathers some people to have breakfast one morning, explains his idea, bashes it around with his colleagues, and as a result of that breakfast chat he goes home after the IETF meeting and writes up an Internet Draft. None of this is hidden; none of this is secret. It's all the way work gets done efficiently: a small group of people crack some tough nuts, and present the results to a wider audience. Barry