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Michael, I think what you're getting at is that there are different types of remote participation. If one wants to listen in, that should only require the appropriate software and a network connection. If one actually wants to participate, then one either has to get onto a WeBex or Meetecho system. The point of this is that there has should be some demonstration that someone substantially participated in an IETF event. Speaking of which, let me also raise another issue. As those of you who will be there in person will see in Berlin, we have a vast number of BoFs planned, and this could lead to a vast number of additional new working groups. We won't have room for them all. In addition, I myself am co-chair of a working group who is not intended to meet – ever. Linked to the issue of NOMCOM is the idea that working groups actually meet at IETFs. Some certainly will continue to do so. Others, on the other hand, require more bandwidth. Case and point: the httpbis working group has held two interim meetings and two more are planned. All off site. Should these people be counted? If so, how? And yes, it is possible to make this so complex that nobody would be able to figure out who is eligible. And so, as I said, I'm fine with SM's idea, modulo John's suggested edit. But I also think it would be useful to look beyond that change as well. Eliot |