--On Saturday, March 30, 2013 14:57 +0000 "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >... > Mail acceptance for IPv4 worked inclusively - receivers accept > unless IP reputation or other factors failed. IMHO with IPv6 > that model may need to be turned around to an exclusive one - > so receivers will not accept mail unless certain factors are > met (like domain-based authentication or the IPv6 address is > on a whitelist). I'd expect MAAWG will continue to be a good > place for mail ops folks to work through this stuff. Without expressing any particular opinion about the above, I would encourage people to remember that one of the fundamental design decisions about Internet mail --predating even RFCs 821/822-- has been that messages will either be delivered or explicitly rejected in a way that produces an NDN to the sender. There was obviously an exception case when the NDN could not be delivered, but it was, and remains, rare for properly-constructed legitimate messages. Put differently, it is not a "sometimes works" or "best efforts" service: the sender has the right to assume that silence implies successful delivery. Legitimate concerns about "Joe-job" attacks, blowback, and similar nonsense have created good operational reasons to not have every undeliverable message generate an NDN. From the point of view of a legitimate sender, silence no longer reliably indicates delivery: it could indicate delivery, silent dropping of the message for a reason indiscernible to the sender, or. in rare cases, loss of the NDN. We specified delivery notifications to permit a sender to get a higher level of assurance about delivery, but support for them has always been optional. If a sender asks for a delivery notification, no response (and no NDN) can mean that the delivery notification got lost, the NDN, got lost, or the message was successfully delivered but delivery notifications were not supported by the delivery MTA -- a rather ambiguous situation. It sometimes feels as if anti-spam efforts are trending in the direction of its being acceptable to accidentally discard a few dozen legitimate messages if doing so allows blocking a few thousand unsolicited/undesired ones. I hope we never consider that a good tradeoff but, if we do, the decisions should at least be made openly and with some degree of community consensus. If we are going to take further steps in the direction of silently dropping undeliverable or undesired messages, I believe we need to carefully consider the implications of that change to the email model and, in particular, whether support for delivery notifications should be made mandatory or other changes are needed to keep email as a much more reliable service than, e.g., putting messages into bottles and throwing the bottles into large bodies of water. We should probably also encourage requirements that email vendors and providers who consider discarding possibly-legitimate messages reasonable in order to reduce spam to disclose that fact to their users, customers, and the community. best, john