On 3/10/2013 1:04 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >> +1. We do not want to manage by ideology - consider how well that >> serves political parties. > Right. Well, I don't know. To be honest "The I* should contain more than one sort of human" doesn't sound *that* ideological to me. We've certainly got, I think, compelling technical management reasons to be getting more direction from people who, say, don't work for behemoth manufacturers or who do know something about network deployment and management practices in east Asia. And I'll go on record requesting that folks think pretty carefully before saying that including something other than white western guys means lowering standards. Anyway, at this point I'm really not sure how to proceed with the discussion. I'm convinced there's a problem but I'm equally convinced that we can't make progress on it given current organizational constraints. I don't know how many people remember the "problem" working group that Harald got started when he was IETF chair. Avri and I co-chaired it. After nine or so months of listening to people complain about nearly everything about the IETF it was a little difficult to feel anything but despair for the organization, and I think I could very happily live without a rerun (especially if we start to see unfortunate comments about affirmative action and whatnot). Melinda