----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Byrne" <cb.list6@xxxxxxxxx> To: "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> Cc: <braden@xxxxxxx>; "IETF-Discussion" <ietf@xxxxxxxx>; "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <Chris.Dearlove@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "t.p." <daedulus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:12 PM > On Mar 6, 2013 1:03 AM, "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > On 06/03/2013 08:36, t.p. wrote: > > ... > > > Interesting, there is more life in Congestion Control than I might have > > > thought. But it begs the question, is this something that the IETF > > > should be involved with or is it better handled by those who are > > > developping LTE etc? > > > > From the little I know about TCP proxies, they are horrible beasts > > that can impact application layer semantics. Figuring out how to deal > > with mixed e2e paths (partly lossy, partly congested) seems to me > > very much an IRTF/IETF topic, even if we don't have an AD who is > > a subject matter expert. > > > > Brian > > There is a huge cross layer optimization issue between 3gpp and the ietf. > It is worse than you can imagine, highly akin to how the industry moved > passed the ietf with Nat. The same thing is happening with tcp. Tcp is > simply not fit for these high latency high jitter low loss networks. Reading this reminds me that my first experience with TCP was over a high latency high jitter network with 0% error and 0% loss (to my ability to measure it) with retransmission rates of 50%, because the TCP algorithms were totally unsuited to such a network. It was, of course, X.25. Did anyone find a solution back then, or did we just wait for X.25 to be superseded? (I am back on my thesis that there is nothing new in Congestion Control, that the principles and practices that we need have been around for many years and that we just need to find them). Tom Petch > Google is a player in the e2e space for various business reasons and it > appears they are now in an arms race with these horrible mobile carrier > proxies (which in many cases do on the fly transcoding of video). > > There are 2 fronts. 1 is quic as linked above. Another is their own > transcoding https proxy > https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/data-compression > > This is not novel. Opera mini has been doing this for years, otherwise know > as opera turbo. Oh, and Nokia has been doing it too. They even help by > bypassing pki and any sense of internet security. > > http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/nokia-decrypting-traffic-man-in-the -middle-attacks-103799 > > Hold on to your hats. > > CB >