I believe one "strong axe" is a fundamental one:
The mere integration of IETF parts is not patentable material or
one that allows an new I-D based on the integration that is not
patent free.
Its is far to easy today under the extremely relaxed patent laws to
apply for a patent purely based on the integration of existing parts
and rather than just patent the unique METHOD added to the
integration, it now covers ALL methods of integrating the parts.
In other words, the IETF IPR guidelines needs to be updated to cover
the issue. If this new "sanctions" I-D attempts to update the IPR
guidelines, then that may be good.
But it needs to address the fundamental problem that existing systems
can not be denied to add an IETF technology that MAY be very natural
in its evolution. I may have a system with IMAP and SIEVE, should
IETF recognize an IPR claim purely based on adding SIP to this system?
or should it recognize only the UNIQUE METHOD employed in the integration?
These are all Markus Analysis concepts once used by patent examiners
and a very strong part of that analysis was that a patent claim COULD
NOT deny existing systems implement what would be a natural concept in
its system.
--
HLS
Adrian Farrel wrote:
Richard,
I think this is exactly the right situation for gut reactions.
The I-D specifically tries to stay away from being formulaic on the application
of sanctions. IMHO the circumstances are too complex to write code to handle.
Each application of sanctions will need human judgment.
We did (under some pressure :-) include an appendix to give some high-level
guidance on "things to think about".
Bright lines and sharp axes would be nice, but even civilized nations rarely
manage to achieve that in law systems. Unfortunate executions of innocent
bystanders is to be avoided.
But I do think the IETF can handle these decisions. They are no harder than
reaching rough consensus on intractable technical issues. And there seemed to me
(when writing the I-D) to be something of a swell of opinion that supports
applying sanctions.
Please continue to massage your gut, and react some more.
Cheers,
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Richard
L. Barnes
Sent: 26 January 2012 23:35
To: Pete Resnick
Cc: IETF-Discussion list
Subject: Re: Forthcoming draft: draft-farrresnickel-ipr-sanctions
I appreciate that there need to be disincentives to infringing the IPR policy,
but
I'm a little wary of the idea of codifying a system of sanctions. Mainly for
the
sorts of "gaming the system" thinking they engender:
-- Is the benefit of infringing worse than the cost of the sanction?
-- If it's not sanctionable, it must be ok!
Plus, if there are sanctions, then you need a judgement process to decide when
the sanctions will be applied. Is the IETF set up for that?
Rather than bright lines and clear sanctions, it seems like a general culture
of
conservatism, staying far away from things that could possibly be construed as
violations, would be more in tune with the way other things work at the IETF.
No real answers here, just expressing a gut reaction.
--Richard
On Jan 26, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Pete Resnick wrote:
Just a heads-up:
Adrian Farrel and I started work on a draft to focus discussion on sanctions
that
could be applied to violators of the IETF's IPR policy. Because of incidents
like the
present one, we've each been asked by WG chairs and others what can be done
in response to such violations. We've centered our draft around sanctions that
are available under current IETF procedures, not introducing new ones. The
draft
should be available in the I-D repository soon. We think this could usefully
become an RFC and we would welcome discussion.
Thanks,
pr
--
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
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