So be it.. from my behalf. - Jouni On Jan 16, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > And I'd be ecstatic (when it happens:-) > > Thanks, > S > > On 01/16/2012 02:51 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: >> This would be fine with me. >> >> Dan >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: jouni korhonen [mailto:jouni.nospam@xxxxxxxxx] >>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:50 PM >>> To: Stephen Farrell; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) >>> Cc: Jouni Korhonen; lionel.morand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Morand; >>> dime@xxxxxxxx; IETF-Discussion; iesg@xxxxxxxx IESG >>> Subject: Re: WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance and >>> Extensions (dime) >>> >>> Stephen, Dan, >>> >>> What if we just add a milestone to the charter to indicate that >>> end-to-end security is coming to our table? >>> >>> Jul 2012 - Sumbit 'problem statement and requirements for Diameter >>> end-to-end security framework' as Dime working group >> item. >>> Dec 2012 - Submit 'problem statement and requirements for Diameter >>> end-to-end security framework' to the IESG for >>> consideration >>> as an Informational RFC. >>> >>> I would give some time folks to work this out.. and then when we >>> actually >>> know what we and especially IETF external deployment folks want, we >> can >>> move to solution part.. Seems like a relaxed milestone plan but I >> have >>> doubts it would progress any faster in real life even if milestones >>> were >>> tighter ;) >>> >>> - Jouni >>> >>> On Jan 12, 2012, at 2:15 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> If a number of hands were raised now and the folks commanding them >>> say >>>> 'we are ready to work on this NOW' I would support including >> explicit >>>> wording in the charter. If this does not happen until the telechat >>> next >>>> week the current text is good enough to allow interested people to >>> start >>>> working on contributions that can be individual submissions. If >> these >>>> submissions are consistent enough the WG can add the milestone later >>> in >>>> the charter and adopt the submissions as WG items. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: iesg-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:iesg-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On >> Behalf >>>> Of >>>>> Stephen Farrell >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:13 PM >>>>> To: jouni korhonen >>>>> Cc: jouni.korhonen@xxxxxxx; lionel.morand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; >>>>> dime@xxxxxxxx; IETF-Discussion; iesg@xxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: Re: WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance and >>>>> Extensions (dime) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jouni, >>>>> >>>>> Right, I'm trying to encourage this - I'm not trying >>>>> to make it a gating function for the recharter. Its >>>>> still worth doing though if we can find some victims >>>>> with enough energy:-) >>>>> >>>>> I agree that the current charter text might not need >>>>> to be modified, OTOH, if there were folks who wanted to >>>>> do the work, a milestone might be good. I also agree >>>>> that as of now, that addition is not warranted. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> S >>>>> >>>>> On 01/12/2012 12:08 PM, jouni korhonen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen, >>>>>> >>>>>> This topic raises its head every now and then when a Dime >>>>>> document arrives at IESG ;) Apart from that there has been >>>>>> very little serious public discussion about it recently, >>>>>> for some unknown reason to me. A detail worth pointing out >>>>>> is that the support for the End-to-End security framework >>>>>> (E2E-Sequence AVP and 'P'-bit in the AVP header) has been >>>>>> deprecated in RFC3588bis (now in IESG). So we are "free" >>>>>> to start from scratch. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is enough serious energy and vision for pursuing >>>>>> end-to-end security, I do not see current proposed charter >>>>>> text prohibiting it: >>>>>> >>>>>> "- Maintaining and/or progressing, along the standards track, the >>>>>> Diameter Base protocol and Diameter Applications. This includes >>>>>> extensions to Diameter Base protocol that can be considered as >>>>>> enhanced features or bug fixes." >>>>>> >>>>>> I would argue the end-to-end security is an enhanced feature for >>>>>> Diameter base protocol that fixes a serious bug/flaw in security. >>>>>> On the other hand, if an explicit note is needed about this topic >>>>>> in the charter, I might hesitate to include such in this round. >>>>>> I would first like to see some concrete movement& work around >>>>>> this topic. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Jouni >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 11, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> During the IESG internal review of this I asked whether >>>>>>> or not there was interest in trying to tackle end to >>>>>>> end security for AVPs. I do know there is at least some >>>>>>> interest in that but its not clear there's enough to >>>>>>> warrant including it in the re-charter so I said I'd >>>>>>> ask when the recharter went out for review... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So - anyone interested in DIME solving that problem? >>>>>>> (And willing and able to help do the work of course.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As of now, Diameter really only has hop-by-hop security >>>>>>> which is ok in many cases but far from ideal (wearing >>>>>>> my security hat) in some. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Stephen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01/11/2012 04:37 PM, IESG Secretary wrote: >>>>>>>> A modified charter has been submitted for the Diameter >>> Maintenance >>>>> and >>>>>>>> Extensions (dime) working group in the Operations and Management >>>>> Area of >>>>>>>> the IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The >>>>> modified >>>>>>>> charter is provided below for informational purposes only. >>> Please >>>>> send >>>>>>>> your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@xxxxxxxx) by >>>>> Wednesday, >>>>>>>> January 18, 2012. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Diameter Maintenance and Extensions (dime) >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Current Status: Active >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Last Modified: 2012-01-10 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chairs: >>>>>>>> Lionel Morand<lionel.morand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> Jouni Korhonen<jouni.korhonen@xxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Operations and Management Area Directors: >>>>>>>> Dan Romascanu<dromasca@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> Ronald Bonica<rbonica@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Operations and Management Area Advisor: >>>>>>>> Dan Romascanu<dromasca@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mailing Lists: >>>>>>>> General Discussion: dime@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> To Subscribe: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime >>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dime/current/maillist.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Description of Working Group: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Diameter Maintenance and Extensions WG will focus on >>>>> maintenance and >>>>>>>> extensions to the Diameter protocol required to enable its use >>> for >>>>>>>> authentication, authorization, accounting, charging in network >>>>> access, >>>>>>>> provisioning of configuration information within the network, >> and >>>>> for >>>>>>>> new AAA session management uses within the extensibility rules >> of >>>>> the >>>>>>>> Diameter base protocol. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The DIME working group plans to address the following items: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Maintaining and/or progressing, along the standards track, the >>>>>>>> Diameter Base protocol and Diameter Applications. This includes >>>>>>>> extensions to Diameter Base protocol that can be considered as >>>>> enhanced >>>>>>>> features or bug fixes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Diameter application design guideline. This document will >>>> provide >>>>>>>> guidelines for design of Diameter extensions. It will detail >> when >>>>> to >>>>>>>> consider reusing an existing application and when to develop a >>> new >>>>>>>> application. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Protocol extensions for the management of Diameter entities. >>>> This >>>>> work >>>>>>>> focuses on the standardization of Management Information Bases >>>>> (MIBs) to >>>>>>>> configure Diameter entities (such as the Diameter Base protocol >>> or >>>>>>>> Diameter Credit Control nodes). The usage of other management >>>>> protocols >>>>>>>> for configuring Diameter entities may be future work within the >>>>> group. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Protocol extensions for bulk and grouped AAA session >>> management. >>>>> The >>>>>>>> aim of this work is to study and standardize a solution for >>>>> handling >>>>>>>> groups of AAA sessions within the Diameter base protocol >> context. >>>>> The >>>>>>>> solution would define how to identify and handle grouped AAA >>>>> sessions in >>>>>>>> commands and operations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Additionally, Diameter-based systems require interoperability in >>>>> order >>>>>>>> to work. The working group, along with the AD, will need to >>>>> evaluate any >>>>>>>> potential extensions and require verification that the proposed >>>>>>>> extension is needed, and is within the extensibility rules of >>>>> Diameter >>>>>>>> and AAA scope. Coordination with other IETF working groups and >>>>> other >>>>>>>> SDOs (e.g. 3GPP) will be used to ensure this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Goals and Milestones: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Done - Submit the following two Diameter Mobility documents >>> to >>>>> the >>>>>>>> IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standards:* >>>>> 'Diameter >>>>>>>> Mobile IPv6: Support for Home Agent to Diameter >> Server >>>>>>>> Interaction' * 'Diameter Mobile IPv6: Support for >>>>> Network >>>>>>>> Access Server to Diameter Server Interaction' >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter API' to the IESG for consideration >> as >>>>> an >>>>>>>> Informational RFC >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Quality of Service Parameters for Usage with >>>>>>>> Diameter' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed >>>>>>>> Standard. >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter QoS Application' to the IESG for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Support for EAP Re-authentication >>>>>>>> Protocol' as DIME working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter User-Name and Realm Based Request >>>>> Routing >>>>>>>> Clarifications' as DIME working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Proxy Mobile IPv6' as DIME working >>>>> group >>>>>>>> item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Quality of Service Attributes for Diameter' >> to >>>>> the >>>>>>>> IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Proxy Mobile IPv6' to the IESG for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter User-Name and Realm Based Request >>>>> Routing >>>>>>>> Clarifications' to the IESG for consideration as a >>>>> Proposed >>>>>>>> Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter NAT Control Application' as DIME >>>>> working >>>>>>>> group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Capabilities Update' as DIME working >>>>> group >>>>>>>> item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Credit Control Application MIB' to >>> the >>>>>>>> IESG for consideration as an Informational RFC >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Base Protocol MIB' to the IESG for >>>>>>>> consideration as an Informational RFC >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Capabilities Update' to the IESG for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Extended NAPTR' as DIME working >> group >>>>> item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Realm-Based Redirection In Diameter' as DIME >>>>>>>> working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6 >>>> Localized >>>>>>>> Routing' as DIME working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Attribute-Value Pairs for >>>> Cryptographic >>>>>>>> Key Transport' as DIME working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Priority Attribute Value Pairs' as >>>> DIME >>>>>>>> working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter IKEv2 PSK' as DIME working group >> item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Base Protocol' to the >>> IESG >>>>> for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Attribute-Value Pairs for >>>> Cryptographic >>>>>>>> Key Transport' to the IESG for consideration as a >>>>> Proposed >>>>>>>> Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Priority Attribute Value Pairs' to >>> the >>>>>>>> IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Network Access Server >>>>>>>> Application - RFC 4005bis' as DIME working group item >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter NAT Control Application' to the IESG >>>>> for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter IKEv2 PSK' to the IESG for >>>>> consideration >>>>>>>> as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Extended NAPTR' to the IESG for >>>>>>>> consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Done - Submit 'Diameter Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6 >>>> Localized >>>>>>>> Routing' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed >>>>>>>> Mar 2012 - Submit 'Realm-Based Redirection In Diameter' to the >>>> IESG >>>>>>>> for consideration as a Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> Mar 2012 - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Network Access Server >>>>>>>> Application - RFC 4005bis' to the IESG for >>>>> consideration as a >>>>>>>> Proposed Standard >>>>>>>> May 2012 - Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to >> the >>>>> IESG >>>>>>>> for consideration as a BCP document Standard >>>>>>>> Jul 2012 - Submit 'Diameter Support for EAP Re-authentication >>>>>>>> Protocol' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed >>>>>>>> Standard >>>>>>>> Aug 2012 - Submit a document on 'Protocol extension for bulk and >>>>> group >>>>>>>> signaling' as a working group item >>>>>>>> Aug 2013 - Submit a document on 'Protocol extension for bulk and >>>>> group >>>>>>>> signaling' to the IESG for consideration as a >> Proposed >>>>>>>> Standard >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>>>>>>> IETF-Announce@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ietf mailing list >>>>>>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf