RE: [BEHAVE] [Softwires] Last Call: <draft-ietf-behave-v4v6-bih-06.txt> (Dual Stack Hosts Using "Bump-in-the-Host" (BIH)) to Proposed Standard

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Hi Cameron,

> If the application itself delivers an IPv4 literal via protocols like
> MSN or Skype, there is a path and socket made available, that is what
> this NAT46 code does.

Is there a dependency on the existence of IPv4 literal so as to use the v4-interface provided by NAT46 code? IOW, does every IP-only app work now on n900?


Cheers,
Rajiv


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cameron Byrne [mailto:cb.list6@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:14 PM
> To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
> Cc: Mark Townsley; Hui Deng; Softwires-wg list; Behave WG; IETF Discussion;
> Dan Wing (dwing)
> Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [Softwires] Last Call: <draft-ietf-behave-v4v6-bih-
> 06.txt> (Dual Stack Hosts Using "Bump-in-the-Host" (BIH)) to Proposed Standard
> 
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Rajiv Asati (rajiva) <rajiva@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Hi Cameron,
> >
> > Very interesting (& clever indeed).
> >
> >
> > How does this clever code ensure that all but a few (pesky apps)
> > continue to use IPv6 interface instead of the NAT46 interface?
> 
> Rajiv,
> 
> DNS64 is used.  So anything that can take  a AAAA will use a AAAA and
> the native IPv6 path, with or without NAT64 -- as needed.
> 
> If the application itself delivers an IPv4 literal via protocols like
> MSN or Skype, there is a path and socket made available, that is what
> this NAT46 code does.
> 
> As i mentioned before, i don't like this.  But, i respect that it
> works and it solves a real problem for users of these ipv4-only apps.
> I personally find it easy to live with only IP version agnostic apps
> that work well in an IPv6-only NAT64/DNS64 network.  I have been
> eating this "dog food" for over 18 months.  I am happy to let the
> market and eco-system punish apps for not supporting IPv6, and for the
> market to reward apps that do support IPv6.
> 
> I believe draft-ietf-behave-v4v6-bih-06 has too narrow of a scope to
> be useful since it explicitly does NOT support IPv4-only apps talking
> to IPv4  servers over an IPv6-only network
> 
> Cameron
> 
> > Cheers,
> > Rajiv
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: behave-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:behave-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of
> >> Cameron Byrne
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:12 PM
> >> To: Mark Townsley
> >> Cc: Hui Deng; Softwires-wg list; Behave WG; IETF Discussion; Dan Wing
> > (dwing)
> >> Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [Softwires] Last Call:
> > <draft-ietf-behave-v4v6-bih-
> >> 06.txt> (Dual Stack Hosts Using "Bump-in-the-Host" (BIH)) to Proposed
> > Standard
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Mark Townsley <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>> +1 ... since the alternative is that apps that require ipv4
> > sockets and
> >> >>> pass ipv4 literals are stranded on ipv6 only networks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Running code on the n900 shows that nat464 provides real user and
> >> >>> network benefit
> >> >
> >> > Frankly, I preferred it when you were running IPv6-only without BIH
> > on your
> >> trial, providing pressure to get rid of all those stranded literals
> > and
> >> pushing apps to open ipv6 sockets :-/
> >> >
> >> > - Mark
> >>
> >> We're still doing that, and IPv6-only is still my philosophical
> >> preference and that is how we are launching the IPv6 + NAT64/DNS64
> >> service into the production mobile network (real soon now).  No change
> >> in that path.
> >>
> >> But some "power users" wanted their IPv4-only applications like Skype
> >> to work so they coded a NAT46 work-around for the N900.  It is clever,
> >> it works.
> >>
> >> Their process of feeling the pain of a very few pesky IPv4-only apps
> >> and working around it is all documented here:
> >> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60320
> >>
> >> Running NAT46 code here: http://code.google.com/p/n900ipv6/wiki/Nat64D
> >>
> >> In the end (as well as IPv6-only near term in mobile), IP version
> >> agnostic apps will prove to be more reliable and therefore will get
> >> more market share.
> >>
> >> Cameron
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Behave mailing list
> >> Behave@xxxxxxxx
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave
> >
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