Fascinating. I had no idea that there even *was* such a phrase in common usage, let alone that there was known etymology for it. One learns something new every day. But I meant it quite literally: a moderate/humble/etc. proposal for Friday meeting schedule. -hadriel On Aug 1, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Margaret Wasserman wrote: > > Hi All, > > Within the IETF, it has become common to use the term a "A Modest Proposal..." as a title for actual proposals for process change within the IETF. This causes some cultural dissonance for me, personally, and I want to make sure that people are aware of the origin of this term, and the potential for misinterpretation of proposals that are titled this way. > > It is not my intention to criticize Hadriel, or anyone else who has used this phrase. I am sure that no one who has used this term has intended to be offensive to me or to anyone else. I am not personally offended, and I am not looking for an apology. I just want to make sure that people understand how the use of this term resonates with me, personally, and potentially with others. > > The original article by Jonathan Swift, titled, "A Modest Proposal...", was a satirical suggestion that widespread famine and poverty in Ireland could be addressed by the Irish selling their children to the wealthy as a source of food (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html). This was a very loaded article that made an outrageous proposal, clearly not one that was meant to be taken seriously. This article has been interpreted in many different ways, though. Despite the fact that the article may have been intended to be supportive of the Irish cause (by satirizing England's indifference to Irish poverty and famine), the article was, nonetheless, highly offensive to many Irish people for a number of reasons. Although i can't personally see it, I have also been assured that the article is uproariously funny. Whether you find the article offensive or humorous, though, "A Modest Proposal..." is a culturally charged reminder of a very difficult time in Irish/English history, an > d the term is likely to evoke complex feelings in people who are still culturally sensitive about that topic. > > So, if you are making a satirical, uproariously funny suggestion that you do not intend to be taken seriously, but that might be misinterpreted as incredibly offensive to all parties involved, then "A Modest Proposal.." might be just the right title... (Although you might want to think twice before you hit "send" :-)). > > But, if you are making a serious proposal for how to improve things in the IETF, I would personally feel more comfortable, and therefore better disposed toward your suggestion, if you would not use the term "A Modest Proposal.." to describe it. > > You are, of course, free to use any title you wish for your own proposals... My only purpose in sending this mail is to educate people who might not be aware of the history of this particular phrase, so that they might have a better basis for deciding whether or not to use "A Modest Proposal..." in the titles of their own proposals. > > Thank you for listening, > Margaret > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf