On Jun 20, 2011, at 11:16 PM, Glen Zorn wrote: > On 6/21/2011 11:30 AM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > ... > >>> Actually, it seems that the conference rates at IETF hotels are quite >>> predictable: a couple of months ago it was possible to book a room at >>> the QC Hilton for $176 CAD/night _during the IETF meeting_; if you check >>> the Hilton Web site right now, you will find that equivalent rooms at >>> the Hilton the week before the IETF run about $100 less than during the >>> meeting. It's possible that IETF week marks the transition to high >>> season rates, but in that case why not move the meeting by a week? This >>> is not an isolated case: in Beijing, rooms at the Shangri-La were >>> significantly cheaper both the week before and the week after the IETF; >>> in Hiroshima, I got a room at the conference hotel the week of the >>> meeting for ~$50/night less than the conference rate by eschewing "free" >>> breakfast. Admittedly the breakfast in Hiroshima was both tasty and >>> plentiful, but $50? Not even in Japan. It seems apparent that the IAOC >>> "negotiators" are wearing signs around their necks during the hotel >>> negotiations; the only question is what is written on the signs. Is it >>> "I am a moron" or the simple but effective "F*&k Me" >> >> >> It has been repeated ad-nausieum that "conference rates" subsidize the rental of the meeting room block... > > So you believe that that is a good way to negotiate? That could explain > a lot by itself... nope, factual reporting should not be construed as approval. > The fact that the conference rates are more expensive ( on a contract > signed 24 months out) than a spot check of the room rate at any given > time should come as no surprise to anyone. > > Really? So I should expect to pay less as an individual renting a room > than as a member of a group renting 200? In what universe does that > make sense? In the universe where you sign a contract with a hotel for use of their facilities two years you are in effect paying a risk premium since you a enjoining them from selling the facility out from under you. If you've ever entered into a futures contract you might be familiar with this... The customer who soaks up unused capacity 3 weeks out will pay less for the privledge they may not be able to book a meeting room however... The feedback that I provided into the IASA when the management of the activity moved from CNRI to the IAOC/IAD was that more flexibility on dates made it easier to negotiate with hotels on both fees and the use of facilities. The IETF community indicated unequically that meeting dates be known as far in advance as feasible, and in particular, the dates are fixed considerably ahead of hotel contracts, this does not increase your flexibility in negioating. >> You can cruise the IETF finances if for some reason you don't believe this. If the room block doesn't get filled you can expect your fees to go up accordingly over time. > > > IEEE 802 had that problem; the last time I checked, their "solution" was > to raise the meeting fee ($1000 at the recent meeting in Singapore, for > example, without early-bird discounts) and discount it if one could > prove that they spent at least 1 night in the conference hotel. Of > course, their excuse was a corrupt meeting arranger who locked them into > exorbitant prices years in advance.... > >> I will observe that I have generally not paid the conference rate or stayed in the meeting hotel while attending the IETF on my own dime (and have stayed in some rather nicer hotels (paris, stockholm, etc) for less money as a result. When I attend on behalf my employer I make it clear what we paying for when participating. >> >> please look at the balance sheet here: >> >> http://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/Meeting-Financials-2010-77.pdf >> >> and note both the hotel commission, a credit, and the zero charge associated with meeting rooms. >> >> It's not clear to me that this can be made more transparent, but if you'd like to try I'm sure that someone would be happy to nominate you for an open iaoc position when available. > > Thanks for the non-answer. My comment had nothing to do with > "transparency", however, and everything to do with competence... Which you are qualified to asses on the basis of you long experience in meeting booking... > I do > wonder what the difference is to us if we pay for the meeting rooms > directly (through meeting fees) or indirectly (through increased room > rates)? > >> >> joel >> > <gwz.vcf> _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf