On Jun 20, 2011, at 9:00 PM, Glen Zorn wrote: > On 6/20/2011 11:54 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > >> >> Keith, >> >> Here is the tradeoff: >> >> "The community" has expressed a strong preference for one-roof venues >> [which often translates to convention center + hotel next door in our >> case] in a city setting (City West and Maastricht being non-examples). >> >> This leads to (generally speaking): >> >> * Somewhat expensive main hotel rates (although I agree that hotel >> rates seem to be as variable and unpredictable as airline rates, and >> I would hope we could do better even if we sign the contract several >> years in advance.) > > Actually, it seems that the conference rates at IETF hotels are quite > predictable: a couple of months ago it was possible to book a room at > the QC Hilton for $176 CAD/night _during the IETF meeting_; if you check > the Hilton Web site right now, you will find that equivalent rooms at > the Hilton the week before the IETF run about $100 less than during the > meeting. It's possible that IETF week marks the transition to high > season rates, but in that case why not move the meeting by a week? This > is not an isolated case: in Beijing, rooms at the Shangri-La were > significantly cheaper both the week before and the week after the IETF; > in Hiroshima, I got a room at the conference hotel the week of the > meeting for ~$50/night less than the conference rate by eschewing "free" > breakfast. Admittedly the breakfast in Hiroshima was both tasty and > plentiful, but $50? Not even in Japan. It seems apparent that the IAOC > "negotiators" are wearing signs around their necks during the hotel > negotiations; the only question is what is written on the signs. Is it > "I am a moron" or the simple but effective "F*&k Me" It has been repeated ad-nausieum that "conference rates" subsidize the rental of the meeting room block... The fact that the conference rates are more expensive ( on a contract signed 24 months out) than a spot check of the room rate at any given time should come as no surprise to anyone. You can cruise the IETF finances if for some reason you don't believe this. If the room block doesn't get filled you can expect your fees to go up accordingly over time. I will observe that I have generally not paid the conference rate or stayed in the meeting hotel while attending the IETF on my own dime (and have stayed in some rather nicer hotels (paris, stockholm, etc) for less money as a result. When I attend on behalf my employer I make it clear what we paying for when participating. please look at the balance sheet here: http://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/Meeting-Financials-2010-77.pdf and note both the hotel commission, a credit, and the zero charge associated with meeting rooms. It's not clear to me that this can be made more transparent, but if you'd like to try I'm sure that someone would be happy to nominate you for an open iaoc position when available. joel _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf