Just for the record,.. I favor the publication of this document with a minimum of further fuss. I read and studied this document before the first I-D was published, participated in discussion of it on the IDNABIS WG list and again on the APPSAWG list. In each case, essentially the same arguments were repeated and the same conclusion reached. While the consensus is definitely rough, we are putting a tremendous amount of of review cycles and energy into a document whose essence is "we have agreed to do nothing". We rarely publish documentation of a decision to do nothing in the RFC Series. Instead, we simply do nothing and move on. john _Background and Reprise (in case needed or wanted)_ The argument for doing something --that this document makes and describes the wrong decision-- is rooted in a set of decisions the IDNABIS WG made (also with rough, rather than perfect, consensus) a rather long time ago. One of the key differences between IDNA2003 and IDNA2008 was the decision to try to be independent of Unicode versions rather than tied to a specific one. That decision, in turn, required that the IDNA properties of characters -- whether they are Protocol-VALID in IDNs, DISALLOWED, or valid only in particular contexts -- became a matter of rules that, in turn, utilize the values of selected Unicode properties. If Unicode never changed the properties for a particular character once it was allocated (and avoided introducing new characters that required contextual evaluation), the rule-set would never need to be changed and we would never have to debate, and write, documents keyed to those property changes: new versions of Unicode would add new characters but not change the IDNA properties of previously-assigned ones. The world is not that perfect: Unicode does change properties of already-assigned characters. It is rare (how rare depends a bit on perspective), but it does happen. The reason is typically to correct errors made in earlier property assignments, but other reasons are possible (or one could have a philosophically-interesting, but otherwise useless, debate about how far the concept of "error" can extend). IDNA2008 recognized that such changes might occur and might be disruptive, so provided for a special "exception" rule that could be used to list characters that needed special treatment because of changes in Unicode properties. The WG discussed the question of how to fill the table associated with that rule in, a discussion that included the realization that having the having the table become large would simply create a new, and hard-to-explain, Unicode-version dependence. One option was to populate it automatically: if Unicode made changes, the table would be filled in to preserve the behavior at the time the character was first allocated or that appeared in Unicode 5.2, whichever came later, whatever that was. Another was to turn the decision-making over to the Unicode consortium, which might have resulted in either that same rule or a rule that treated changes from DISALLOWED to PVALID differently from changes from PVALID to DISALLOWED. The WG rejected both of those ideas as well as the idea that some changes were inherently more attractive than others. Instead, the WG concluded that Unicode changes of character properties that affected IDNA needed to be evaluated in the IETF on a case-by-case basis as to whether they were important enough to justify an addition to that exceptions table or whether the balance fell on the side of keeping the table small (and IDNA reflecting as short and obvious an exception list as possible). In this particular instance, rough consensus has been reached in multiple groups that it is better to keep the rules (including that exception table stable and compact than to change the rules in the interest of preserving the character classification associated with Unicode 5.2. Had the characters involved been less obscure, or more obviously used in domain names for other than demonstrations and equivalent purposes, perhaps the decision would have been different (or, if they were less obscure, perhaps Unicode either would not have made the mistake in the first place or would have decided to not correct it). But wanting to consider the tradeoffs and balance between those alternatives, probably with a slight bias toward not making changes in the rules,a is precisely why the WG decided that Unicode property changes needed to be considered by the IETF and on a case-by-case basis. There is no perfect answer to the tradeoff involved unless Unicode never makes an error and concludes that a correction is needed. Because no perfect answer exists, it is possible to reopen the issue, bring up variations on the same old arguments, and debate them endlessly. In that case, we've done that at least twice, and, depending on how one counts, probably several more times. We've decided. Let's get the document published rather than seeing how many words and person-hours we can devote to saying "we considered the issue and decided to do nothing". john --On Monday, 23 May, 2011 15:19 -0700 The IESG <iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Applications Area > Working Group WG (appsawg) to consider the following document: > - 'The Unicode code points and IDNA - Unicode 6.0' > <draft-faltstrom-5892bis-04.txt> as a Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and > solicits final comments on this action. Please send > substantive comments to the ietf@xxxxxxxx mailing lists by > 2011-06-06. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf