Hi Alexa, all, In many countries, applying for a VISA different that the main purpose of the travel to the country is illegal and could mean that you pay fines, get deported, or even go to the jail. In many countries, if you are doing both, a conference and tourism, the more "expensive" or "complex" VISA is the one that applies. As we are having this discussion in a public mailing list, it is obvious that Chinese authorities are aware, up front, that some of us may be cheating when obtaining a tourist VISA if the above statements apply, as I guess, to Chine. In my case, I can't and shouldn't go for a tourist VISA as I will not be able to do sightseeing (already been in China before several occasions), but still didn't got the LOI. So what I do ???? As said in a previous message this is NOT acceptable. The only way it will be acceptable to go for tourist VISA is if we get a written commitment from the Chinese authorities that IN OUR SPECIFIC CASE (IETF attendance), it is ACCEPTABLE to go for the tourist VISA. Otherwise, someone should be responsible for the expenses that may arise if any participant is rejected by immigration when entering China because applying for the wrong VISA. So, either: 1) The secretariat is getting the Chinese immigrations written confirmation about the validity of a TOURIST VISA for attending the IETF. 2) The secretariat or someone else is accepting the responsibility of the costs/expenses/damages implied in any participant being deported or similar when trying to enter China, if the reason is the wrong VISA type. And please, we need this NOW, not tomorrow. Last but not least, make sure that next time, for every IETF venue, we have this information CLEAR up front. We will avoid many useless discussions in the IETF mailing list and wasting time for many of us. Thanks. Regards, Jordi > From: Alexa Morris <amorris@xxxxxxxx> > Reply-To: <amorris@xxxxxxxx> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:58:51 -0700 > To: Ole Jacobsen <ole@xxxxxxxxx>, Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@xxxxxxxxx> > Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Tourist or business visa from US? > > After you register for the meeting, you have the option to request a > letter of invitation. When you follow the link to request one, you are > presented with the following text, in red: > > ---- > IMPORTANT: If you need a letter of invitation for the purposes of > obtaining a visa, you need an official letter from the IETF 79 host, > Tsinghua University. > ? Please complete the LOI request form. > ? You will automatically, via email, receive the standard IETF letter > of invitation (which you may find useful for internal company > approval but which will not help you obtain a visa) > ? In addition, the form output will also go to Tsinghua University, > so that the IETF 79 host can generate an official letter of invitation > to use in the visa application. The host will contact you separately > with your official letter of invitation. > ----- > > If you've already registered, you can refer to your registration > confirmation email for the embedded link that will allow you to > request the LOI. > > On a separate note, when completing the form for your business visa, > you will need to provide contact information for a local 'business > contact'. This individual's contact information can be found here: > http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/faq.html#Inviter > , which you can get to from either the visa FAQ page > (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/faq.html > ) or the visa information page (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/ > visa.html). > > I think perhaps we provide more information about letters of > invitation earlier in the registration process, and I will add some > language to that effect. And please feel free to suggest any other > way we can improve the information, and the way we are presenting it. > > Alexa > > > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > >> >> The form requires contact info for your business contact if you are >> getting a business visa. Otherwise you can leave it blank. >> >> I will let Alexa answer the other questions. >> >> Ole >> >> >> Ole J. Jacobsen >> Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal >> Cisco Systems >> Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 >> E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj >> >> >> >> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Mary Barnes wrote: >> >>> My understanding is that the only difference in paperwork is the >>> letter of >>> invitation. Is there any other additional paperwork that is >>> necessary? I >>> would have thought that letters of invitation would be something >>> the host >>> had anticipated would be needed by the attendees - at least a >>> subset. The >>> wording on the meeting FAQ is somewhat nebulous as it notes that the >>> secretariat won't provide the letters and that one is needed from >>> the host, >>> but there's no information on the process to request one. Do we >>> just send >>> an email to the individual listed as the contact for our visit? >>> >>> Mary. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Ole Jacobsen <ole@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> There is no visa waiver program for China, at least not for any of >>>> the >>>> countries relevant to this discussion. You need a visa. Getting a >>>> tourist one is "easier" in the sense that it requires less paperwork >>>> and documentation. For a visit of duration ~ one week or so, there >>>> should be no issues with getting a tourist visa. >>>> >>>> Ole >>>> >>>> >>>> Ole J. Jacobsen >>>> Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal >>>> Cisco Systems >>>> Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 >>>> E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Mary Barnes wrote: >>>> >>>>> U.S. customs is the least of my worries in this situation. In >>>>> the 15 >>>> years >>>>> that I've been attending these sorts of meetings, I've never >>>>> needed a >>>> visa >>>>> of any sort ahead of time. >>>>> >>>>> Can you please point me to an official website that suggests that >>>>> there >>>> is a >>>>> visa waiver program for us attending the IETF meeting in China? >>>>> >>>>> Mary. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Behcet Sarikaya >>>>> <behcetsarikaya@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I agree with Fred. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many countries we go to attend IETF meetings would probably >>>>>> require >>>>>> "business" >>>>>> visa but we go there as tourists on a visa waiver program. On >>>>>> the way >>>> back >>>>>> as >>>>>> far as US customs are concerned the purpose is business but US >>>>>> customs >>>>>> never >>>>>> asks why you did not get a business visa. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Behcet >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>>>>> From: todd glassey <tglassey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> To: ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>> Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 12:38:00 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tourist or business visa from US? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/24/2010 8:24 AM, Fred Baker wrote: >>>>>>>> In the many times I have visited China, I have gotten a >>>>>>>> business >>>> visa >>>>>> once, >>>>>>> and it was seriously not worth the effort. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I plan to get a tourist visa. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Except that now the PRC is looking at the purpose of your trip >>>>>>> and >>>> that >>>>>>> is to develop intellectual properties so this is not a >>>>>>> personal but >>>>>>> specifically a business trip. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does Cisco's legal department condone that Fred? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Todd Glassey >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is there a consensus that a tourist visa is sufficient to >>>>>>>>> attend >>>> the >>>>>>>>> IETF from the US? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Ietf mailing list >>>>>>>>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Ietf mailing list >>>>>>>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3091 - Release Date: >>>>>> 08/23/10 >>>>>>> 23:34:00 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> //----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message may contain confidential and/or privileged >>>>>>> information. >>>>>>> If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action >>>>>>> based >>>>>>> on this message or any information herein. If you have >>>>>>> received this >>>>>>> message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply >>>> e-mail >>>>>>> and delete this message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your cooperation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ietf mailing list >>>>>>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ietf mailing list >>>>>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf mailing list >> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> > > ----------- > Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF > 48377 Fremont Blvd., Suite 117, Fremont, CA 94538 > Phone: +1.510.492.4089 / Fax: +1.510.492.4001 > Email: amorris@xxxxxxxx > > Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS) > Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning > www.amsl.com <http://www.amsl.com/> > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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