On 2010-04-09 07:08, Donald Eastlake wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> If this is true it make me wonder why does the IETF care about the
>> affiliation of WG chairs and ADs
>>
>> Roni Even
>>
>
> The reason traditionally given that IETF participants in general give their
> affiliation is for purposes of individual identification.
>
> The reason there is concern about too many people with the same affiliation
> in positions where they judge consensus or the like is to avoid situations
> where the organization with which they are affiliated would appear to or
> would have the possibility to dominate.
There is that, and there is the issue of making it harder to "pack"
a WG, so that when a hum or straw poll is taken, a particular company's
preferred choice is over-represented. It's perfectly reasonable for
a WG Chair who is judging a consensus call to reduce the weight of
support for a particular option if s/he *knows* that all its supporters
just happen to work for the same company. Otherwise, the rough consensus
process could be subverted.
We don't always feel comfortable talking about this, but that doesn't
make it untrue.
Brian
(whose recent IETF trips have been funded by Huawei, not
by my university)
>
> The only hard and fast rules about this in the IETF that I know about are
> that nomcom volunteers are required to give their affiliation and no more
> than two voting nomcom members can have the same affiliation. Whether this
> rule is good or bad is a matter of judgement but it was adopted after
> multiple cases where more than two randomly selected voting nomcom members
> had the same affiliation and some people felt this created the impression of
> dominance.
>
> Thanks,
> Donald
>
>
>> *From:* ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] *On Behalf
>> Of *Mark Atwood
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 06, 2010 7:17 PM
>> *To:* ietf@xxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* Public musing on the nature of IETF membership and employment
>> status
>>
>>
>>
>> Much of what makes the IETF work is how it is very different from other
>> standards bodies (such as IEEE, ANSI, ISO, NIST, ITU, etc etc).
>>
>>
>>
>> One key difference is that "groups" do not join the IETF.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cisco, IBM, MCI, or Linden Lab are not a "members" of the IETF. No agency
>> of the US government, or of any other government, is a "member" of the IETF.
>> No university, non-profit, PIRG, PAC, or other "concerned citizens group",
>> is a "member" of the IETF.
>>
>>
>>
>> Only individual people can be "members" of the IETF. And "membership" is
>> mostly defined as "who shows up on the mailing list" and "who shows up at
>> the meetings".
>>
>>
>>
>> There have been many cases in the history of the IETF where well known
>> members who are in the middle of writing standards or of chairing various
>> important working groups, who have worked for well-known large companies,
>> will change employers, to other companies, to startups, or to personal
>> sabbaticals switch around between industry, academia, research, and
>> government, and this will not, does not, and should not, affect their
>> position inside the IETF at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> It appears that sometimes people, inside and outside of the IETF, need to
>> be reminded of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want to write standards like the IEEE and ITU do it, you know where
>> you can find them.
>>
>>
>>
>> But when you choose to participate in the IETF process, that is how it
>> works.
>>
>>
>>
>> And if someone feels that anyone's change in employment status should
>> affect their standing in any part of the IETF process, that person has
>> missed the point, and needs to be pointedly reminded of their mistake.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Ietf@xxxxxxxx
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>>
>>
>
>
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