John, The link you provided is arrived at through my convoluted steps - only because when I copied the link into a browser window, it didn't work. We are looking at the exact same document and I would have quoted exactly the same paragraphs as you did. With that said, I'm not sure we are disagreeing at all. My point was that a US citizen can get a multi-entry visa for 6- or 12-month window _without_ needing to demonstrate anything unusual (such as having been to China on a business visa at least twice prior); only when he wants a multi-entry visa that is effective for 24 months will he need to demonstrate having a substantiated investment _or_ having been to China at least twice with an 'F' visa. Thanks, Jerry -- Jerry Huang, AT&T Labs, +1 630 810 7679 (+1 630 719 4389, soon) -----Original Message----- From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf@xxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:24 PM To: HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS Cc: IETF-Discussion list Subject: RE: Visas and Costs --On Monday, September 21, 2009 18:42 -0400 "HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS" <jhuang1@xxxxxxx> wrote: > OK. That may be the case, so I checked the Chinese Consulate > in Houston and San Francisco, as well as the Chinese Embassy > (in addition to Chicago). All four list multi-entry visa for 6 > or 12 month without additional conditions. Note that 6- and > 12-month duration are the only ones available for selection in > the application form anyway. The explanation (such as at > http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/, then select "Chinese Visa" > on the left menu, then "Chinese Visa", then "Business (F) > Visa" ) does list 24-month multi-entry visa as being available > for any individual under certain conditions such as having > made an investment in China, or having been to China on "F" > visa at least twice before. Maybe that's what John had in mind. No, actually. If the various consulates are telling you different things, that may be an argument for either a visa service or shopping for the best deal. I was told in May, and again in July, that the authoritative document for US Citizens was the one that also appears on the web page at http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84247.htm Please see point I.6, which says: ▲US citizens may apply for a Single Entry (valid for 3-6 months), Double Entry (valid for 6 months), Multiple Entry (valid for 6 months or 12 months) "F" Visa as needed. ▲US citizens may apply for a Multiple Entry "F" Visa valid for 24 months, if 1) they submit documents proving that they have made an investment in China, or have established a collaboration with a Chinese company, e.g. business license, contracts, a letter of appointment, etc.; or 2) they have been issued "F" visa at least twice times, and shall submit copies of the visas. With the understanding that the language that follows is, as far as I know, absolutely standard (i.e., just about every country that requires visas has similar language in their application information), also note, from Section VI, 2.Usually applicant submit his visa application one month earlier before his trip. See Ole's note about that. 3.Visa Officers are empowered to make final decision on the validity,duration of stay and times of entry of a visa and may require the applicants provide relevant documents. That translates into "apply for what you would like; they will give you what they think appropriate". Again, this is standard, not something special about the PRC. > While it may indeed be better off working with a visa service > if one is not close to a Chinese Consulate, or doesn't have > the time, etc., we shouldn't let it come across as harder than > it really is. Right. On the other hand, having been timed out while waiting for a visa application to come through in the (northern hemisphere) spring, I've become a little cautious. For those who don't know, visas are seldom _denied_ without some very substantial reason. What happens much more often is that they simply are not granted before the event for which one wanted to travel. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf