Hi Ole, I'm afraid that results of the survey will *not* prove informative. The one pertinent question in the survey assumes that we have a meeting in China, then asks if the respondent, as an individual, would prefer to attend it. This is very different from asking if we, as a community, should hold such a meeting given that we, as a community, are required to sign away our right to free speech. For your reference, the question is: You may have other reasons for not attending the meeting, but would this contract provision by itself prevent you from attending the meeting? Thanks, Yaron > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:17:10 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ole Jacobsen <ole@xxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Request for community guidance on issue concerning a > future meeting of the IETF > To: Theodore Tso <tytso@xxxxxxx> > Cc: iaoc@xxxxxxxx, ietf@xxxxxxxx, Robert Elz <kre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.63.0909181905390.25806@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 18 Sep 2009, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > > > OTOH, if there is a legal agreement which must be signed which clearly > > impacts the free speach rights of IETF attendees, past a certain > > level, I think it is valid for us as a community to decide that maybe > > using such a venue might not be the path of wisdom. > > Which is why we asked you :-) > > > > > Whether or not the situation "on the ground" in Beijing is likely to > > rise to that level, I am not sure. Maybe people are right in that > > the authorities understand that if they were to be unreasonable, > > it's highly likely that it would be widely publicized and it would > > be a major black eye for them. On the other hand, having heard > > stories (admittedly many years ago), about someone on an > > international assignment in China who called his wife and talked to > > her in Portugese (since that was her native language), only to have > > a heavily Chinese-accented voice break into the line to demand, > > "speak in English", I'd be feeling rather cautious about going to > > China and would probably feel that I would want to be very careful > > about how I spoke and behaved while in that country, far more than > > most other civilized parts of the world --- which wouldn't make it > > to be a terribly pleasant place to visit. > > I think that if you would ask the thousands of businessmen who visit > China every day you would not hear such stories in 2009. Having just > come from a meeting in Beijing (APNIC 28), I can certainly attest to > the fact that nobody worries about what they say in public or private > and there isn't an army of listeners ready to jump on you (at least as > far as I could tell). Of course, if you wander down to a certain > square and unroll a banner, it would probably get you arrested before > anyone had a chance to read it. Since that's not typically something > we do in the IETF, the IAOC does not feel it would impact our ability > to have a good meeting. > > The result of the survey will be informative, I am sure. > > Ole > Email secured by Check Point Email secured by Check Point _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf