On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 08:16:18AM +0700, Robert Elz wrote:
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ole Jacobsen <ole@xxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.63.0909181236360.12080@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> | Whether or not we should meet in China based on principles of
> | free speech and such is, I think, something we need to come to
> | at least a rough consensus on.
>
> Actually, no, we don't, and shouldn't. If we were to start down
> that road we'd need to start analysing the policies of countries on
> all kinds of sensitive issues, such as religious freedom, the right
> to "bear arms", compulsory military service provisions, whether
> or not abortion is permitted, adherence to the Kyoto pact on
> climate control, ....
I think we can make a distinction between things that aren't going to
affect (or are highly unlikely) to directly affect an average IETF
attendee, and issues are more general in nature, or what an oppressive
regime inflicts on its citizens. If there was a proposal to go to a
country was highly likely to clap someone in irons and lock them away
just because they were Jewish, and it would apply to IETF attendees, I
hope it would be obvious that this would be a "religious freedom"
issue that would impact our choice of that venue.
Some IETF'ers might decide that they don't want to render legtimacy to
a regime that denies its citizens Free Speach, and I agree with you
that should be a decision that each attendee should make for its own.
OTOH, if there is a legal agreement which must be signed which clearly
impacts the free speach rights of IETF attendees, past a certain
level, I think it is valid for us as a community to decide that maybe
using such a venue might not be the path of wisdom.
Whether or not the situation "on the ground" in Beijing is likely to
rise to that level, I am not sure. Maybe people are right in that the
authorities understand that if they were to be unreasonable, it's
highly likely that it would be widely publicized and it would be a
major black eye for them. On the other hand, having heard stories
(admittedly many years ago), about someone on an international
assignment in China who called his wife and talked to her in Portugese
(since that was her native language), only to have a heavily
Chinese-accented voice break into the line to demand, "speak in
English", I'd be feeling rather cautious about going to China and
would probably feel that I would want to be very careful about how I
spoke and behaved while in that country, far more than most other
civilized parts of the world --- which wouldn't make it to be a
terribly pleasant place to visit.
- Ted
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